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I've been running it since the RC and am currently in the process of uninstalling it. The new UI is so incredibly ugly I honestly cannot understand how they thought it was acceptable to even released as a beta let alone an RC and now release.
There's SO much padding and wasted screen real estate, disjointed looking floating inner panels, window corners that are so rounded you see gaps in full screen apps, inconsistencies everywhere and - well, I could go on.
Basically the vibe I get from it is that they think their users are dumb - they won't care about things like this and that they want everything to look like a preschoolers tablet.
There's SO much padding and wasted screen real estate
That seems to be a growing trend ever since "UX designers" started taking over (early 2010s?), to the point that I wonder if they're trying to see how far they can take it.
Comment was deleted :(
I count four different corner radius sizes currently on my screen, which is maddening.
Apple has a thing against people with OCD. Or taste.
The thing is horribly wasteful of screen real estate, and as someone who’s been writing a Mac blog for over two decades, I am so happy I started using Fedora two years ago—GNOME has its flaws, but it looks nicer than Tahoe.
Fedora Silverblue is the closest feeling to the macOS experience I fell in love with that I’ve had on Linux in, well, ever. Very happy with it on my desktop and laptop. It’s not perfect but it is less imperfect than modern macOS has become.
Finding a laptop that works well is annoying, however.
> Finding a laptop that works well is annoying, however.
It doesn't exist at the moment. :\
I would pay 2x the price of a macbook for a linux laptop with the same hardware quality.
The battery life and power/efficiency of my m4 pro is insane. It's so good that it's really hard to justify using anything else right now.
I've asked this question very recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44319903
Spoiler Alert: There really isn't anything that comes close to the macbook (even at 2x price).
It's sad that the best Linux laptop right now arguably is a M4 Mac virtualizing Linux.
Why not run it natively with Asahi Linux?
Well limiting to specifically OP's example (M4 Mac), Asahi doesn't support it yet. :(
Is Asahi installed side by side on a mac? You pick it at boot? And how “install and just use” it is?
[dead]
this is a psychotic question but have you actually tried doing that? like using a macbook as a vessel for running linux under parallels as a primary use?
> The battery life and power/efficiency of my m4 pro is insane.
They're coming. Look for AMD Strix Halo chips. They're in the comparably comfortable efficiency range.
> AMD Strix Halo chips
Do you happen to know any laptop that has a) equivalent screen quality (retina resolution), b) keyboard, c) trackpad but with full Linux support where all hardware pheripherals just work?
Razer Blade is my windows laptop. The hardware is great, MacBook nice, but it needs the chip efficiency.
The HP zbook g1a ultra is as close as you can get with Strix Halo. There are two screen options and the OLED one is high resolution. It's Ubuntu certified as well and can run LLMs nicely. The keyboard, trackpad, etc are all to notch. It's somewhere in between a mac pro and max.
I have one and love it but it's not close to my wife's mac on battery life.
The ThinkPad X1 series usually have great linux support and you can option them with 2.8k@120Hz OLED panels, which at 14" lands between the Air and the 14" Pro in terms of PPI. I have a couple generations old X1 Yoga and all of the hardware worked out of the box with Manjaro and Debian, including the touchscreen and active stylus.
People usually buy them for the keyboards and trackpoint, but imo the touchpad is still pretty solid. It is a bit small on account of the trackpoint buttons taking up vertical real estate but its pretty responsive and multi-touch gestures work perfectly in my experience. I believe newer ones have larger trackpads than mine, though still not as large as a similarly sized mac.
Reminder that Thinkpad's makers, Lenovo, has shipped a laptop preloaded with the Superfish malware (https://easytechsolver.com/what-is-the-lenovo-controversy/)
This is true. However, Superfish hasn’t been relevant in years and Lenovo walked back on including such malware going forward as far as I can tell.
And furthermore, Superfish didn’t affect ThinkPads. Only lower end Lenovo models.
HP ZBook Ultra G1a? It has Strix Halo, 14" 2880x1800 (242 ppi) 120 Hz VRR OLED, and Ubuntu 24.04 options.
Can't speak for the keyboard, but HP ZBooks/EliteBooks tend to be decent.
I'm typing this post on the 395+ 128gb RAM model. IMO, the keyboard is better than the one in the newest Macbook Pro. Just enough travel, and quiet enough so I don't disturb co-workers when I type.
I use it for development running Fedora Workstation. My job involves spinning up lots of containers and K8S KIND clusters.
I often reach for it instead of my 14" M4 Macbook. However, I will choose the Macbook Pro when I know I'll be away from a charger for a while. The HP, as great as it is, still has bad battery life.
The only downside is that the webcam _does not work_ unless you use Ubuntu 20.04 w/ the OEM kernel package.
The ISP driver which will enable the camera to work is in the process of being up-streamed, though. I believe they're targeting early 2025 for mainline Linux support.
Well, the highest resolution MacBook has less than 4K resolution and there's plenty of 4K laptops out there...
Most "business" centric laptops work great with Linux, as long as you use a well supported distro (Fedora, Ubuntu, Debian, openSuse). YMML if you use other distros...
Your best option is framework IMO.
The 2.8k panels are overall inferior to Apple's across a number of metrics, but they have a higher pixel density than the Air 13, (and has the S-tier aspect ratio of 3:2).
The FW13 keyboard is objectively pretty decent but not perfect, and is much much better than any keyboard Apple has made in the last decade, could be personal preference but apple has been making some pretty bad keyboards for a while now.
Trackpad on FW13 is OK, no one even comes close to Apple, but it's pretty decent, nothing upsetting if you're comparing it to any non-apple trackpads.
Framework has excellent linux suppport, all hardware bells and whistles generally work out of the box on every Linux distro, but Fedora, Ubuntu, and Bazzite are officially supported by Framework they QA against all three and work with maintainers to resolve issues and you can be totally confident that everything will just work. (At least work as well as it would on Windows!)
The other two downsides relative to a macbook are build quality and support. Although the FW13 is pretty solid in practice, I have dropped mine dozens of times and throw it in my bag and treat it overall rough and it has take on some dings and scratches but everything still works. But the frame is not very rigid, it flexes in lots of places, and it just does not feel as nice and solid as a macbook. And support can be hit-or-miss, like with any small manufacturer.
I think you’re talking about Apple’s butterfly keyboards which were only around for 3-4 years of the last decade you’re talking about. Apple’s keyboards have been great for 5+ years now.
The performance seems to rival Apple's Pro / Max chips but the battery life can only do that for light workloads or videos.
It's messed up TBH, the only laptops competitive on battery are Qualcomm which comes with a different set of sacrifices instead!
Try starlabs, best build quality I've ever seen after apple
what models have you used, specifically.
I have a couple that work quite well with it, including a very nice 10” one - https://taoofmac.com/space/reviews/2025/05/15/2230
And I run a macOS-like GNOME theme that is pretty great.
This looks great, but not for the US market!
Based on past experience, I wouldn't buy chuwi hardware unless you're willing to treat it as disposable
Good to know... at that price it almost is. I just want a half way decent Linux laptop that isn't FHD or 5 years old. Carbons are more than I want to pay for something 'for fun'.
That's less expensive than the ASRock NUC BOX-225H I bought... and that was without RAM/NVMe.
Silverblue is great but regular Fedora is worth a look too if you don't want to deal with the teething issues of managing all your dev-tools with Silverblue's immutable setup, granted that was 2 years ago when i tried so thing's might be better now.
Infuriatingly; I have a macbook because a couple years ago I wanted a laptop that just worked while keeping my familiar tools but it really feels like Linux is trending up in polish and macOS on the down with an intersect possibly happening in a couple years.
That Apple would allow this development to happen without any reversal is astounding. If allowed to continue it could seriously damage their MacBook market share.
Then again, they may not care that much as long as they have the iPhone customer base.
In bluefin (silverblue based) they have brew preinstalled, which helps alot. Plus now its more mac-like.
Are you using Fedora on the Mac (via Asahi)?
Or are you using Fedora on an Intel/AMD laptop?
If it supported M4 I would be using it on my MacBook, but I am using a ThinkPad P14s gen 6 (AMD) right now. Some issues with suspend that I worked around with a kernel parameter but other than that, everything else worked out of the box
Thanks, I wasn't sure from your initial post
I always thought that Gnome developers are imitating macOS. Not copying blindly, but following the ideas and intents.
Finally I hear from real users that the Gnome team has not just reached parity, but has actually exceeded their source of inspiration. (Partly due to the degradation of the latter, but still.)
Doesn't MS still have screens rendered like Windows 3.1 or Win95 in some corners of the OS?
Yeah because some enterprise customers override/extend those panels.
And I love it
It is only Apple can do. It needs courage and innovation.
We, as user should not be beta tester.
That's not possible. I saw a video yesterday where Greg Joswiak (SVP worldwide marketing at Apple) assured me that Apple has the best design team in the world.
Making the world a better place by rounding off all the hard edges including those edge cases…
If 12px won’t do, try 42
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I have been running the beta from the beginning and they have improved quite a bit, but I am actually shocked they didn't delay Mac OS 26, because the design is so rough around the edges. Some of the larger aesthetic changes, such as the menu bar and the dock look good, but there is so much more that looks objectively awful.
1. the way window UI elements float in bubbles on the top over a white background is horrible. It looks amateurish.
2. Icons look low detail and blurry. At first I thought they were using low resolution placeholder icons, but no, the layered diffused glass effect just kind of translates to blurriness on many app icons.
3. The side bar, such as on Finder, just kind of floats there. That is fine and looks kind of neat on the Maps app as you can see some of the maps behind it, but on the Finder it is just a white bubble over top of a white background, which... is a choice.
4. The app launcher is gone, and replaced by Spotlight, which is worse.
I could go on. The point is it is bad and Apple should be embarrassed. I say that as someone who likes Apple products alot.
The original, updated version of the Finder icon alone should have been enough of a warning that the UX designers at Apple have lost their minds and any aesthetic sense, let alone an ability to design interfaces that are functional, efficient, and well thought-out.
https://512pixels.net/2025/06/wwdc25-macos-tahoe-breaks-deca...
> 4. The app launcher is gone, and replaced by Spotlight, which is worse.
Do you mean the Launchpad? (I've never used it; but always use Spotlight to launch apps.)
The biggest surprise to me from this whole beta period is that a significant number of people used Launchpad. I have absolutely zero idea why when Spotlight has existed for more than 20 years. Why would you ever want to click and page through a giant iPhone screen on a desktop/laptop computer?
I don't use Launchpad but I can say, for me, Spotlight sucks! It decides at random times not to complete. I have it set to show apps only. I don't want it to find other things. But quite often I'll press Cmd-Space and type something and it won't find it. For example I just tried "pho" and it did not show Photoshop (which is on my system) but did show stuff completely unrelated to apps and I double checked, I only have apps selected in the Spotlight Search Results section in settings.
This is a bug. The applications need to be reindexed. Happened to me on my work laptop and personal one
If you have multiple ways to do something on a computer/phone, some relatively large percentage of people will fumble around until they figure out a way to do it - and then do it that way forever.
So if someone accidentally triggered Launchpad and realized they could see their apps, they might use that forever (not knowing you can put your Applications folder in your Dock and use it as a start menu lol).
they've had a launch-pad-ey thing forever, I remember when our school lab had Mac IIs and Performas, and there was some simplified UI on top of finder which basically was all your apps in giant rectangular icons. I forget what it was called though.
Because I vaguely remember that one icon I use every other month, but can't recall the name. The icons are also ordered by installation time, so it's easy to jump to the most recent ones.
I use it rarely, but sometimes I'm happy it's there.
Exactly this. Most of the time I use spotlight like everyone else.
Launchpad is an easy gesture with the trackpad (pinch with thumb and three fingers), then type to filter and return to launch. I got used to it for stuff I don't keep in the dock (which is a lot, since I have the dock on the side and only a few things in it).
I suppose Spotlight is OK as a substitute: COMMAND-SPACE, then type to filter and return to launch. It's a little more clunky (as the search results take a few milliseconds to be assembled) but it'll work.
What feels breaking there is when you pinch to open launchpad you are not on home row, so typing to filter is inferior to swiping and clicking large targets.
Cmd+space to open spotlight already worked and typing was the best option for that use case.
I do like the new spotlight experience but this feels like losing a gesture, and it does not spark joy scrolling through the app list.
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What if you forgot the name of the app?
What if you rely on groupings to remember what you have installed for a given activity?
What if you want a quick visual overview of what is available to you?
What if you like or even prefer launchpad?
What if you install tons of tiny little apps that have a specific, if infrequently used, purpose?
What if you enjoy a little app gardening?
What if you don't like command-prompt style interactions?
What if you see value in having more than one way to do something?
What if you have 20+ years of muscle memory established?
What if the only thing you know prior is how to use your iphone?
And on another note, what is it with tech people lacking the ability to see how other types of people may want to use the hardware they paid for with their hard earned dollars? I am so sick of this awful perspective of, "everybody in the world must be exactly like me"
I always forget that Launchpad even exists. I guess it doesn't now. I suppose it might be helpful if you just know "I need that app that looks like X" and don't actually recall the first two letters of the app's name.
> click and page through a giant iPhone screen
1. Launchpad filters based on what you type. You don't have to page through things 2. As soon as you type anything, the first hit is selected and the return key launches it 3. Launchpad shows nothing but apps. As an app launcher, it's fantastic.
If Launchpad is gone I'm going to be sad.
Launchpad is not actually gone: it's now a sub-unit of Spotlight.
I still have an M1 Macbook Pro with touch strip, and my Launchpad touch strip button still works, bringing up Spotlight but with a predicate that makes it search only ./Applications and ~/Applications.
You wouldn't if you are a software engineer or some other power user. The sad fact is Apple knows that the majority of macOS users are accustomed to an iPhone-like workflow, which is swipe-centric, not keyboard-centric.
Then why are they removing it?
I use it when I can't remember the name of an app, or when I've first installed an app and it's not indexed yet.
My sentiments exactly
the app doesn't appear in spotlight until it's indexed.
also spotlight hogs resources indexing stuff all the time, completely pointless when you just want a list of apps
Shocking as it is, search based UIs are really despised by some people (me).
I greatly prefer visual/spatial browsing
It's not the mode so much as the comparative efficiency. In a handful of keystrokes you can launch a commonly used app in under a second. Any type of visual browsing mode is going to take an order of magnitude more time/effort.
For people who never work with things like terminals, sure. For fellow devs, it's an unusual choice unless they routinely cycle through irregularly used apps w/ hard to remember names.
I click one icon, then another. It takes say 2s. Typing two letters and pressing enter would take 10x faster, so 0.2s. Given that I delegated work to AI agents, that’s 1.8s less of waiting :))
As a fellow dev, command line shit is a pain in the ass sometimes. I grew up as a Windows kid, visual browsing for stuff is sometimes the only way to fly. I absolutely loathe the amount of brute-force memorization that is required to operate a command-line efficiently. It took YEARS to memorize simple linux shit
Everyone talks about how CLI is supposedly way more efficient. It is way more efficient to THEM. And now we are stuck in a hell where a good deal of functionality is only accessible if you want and are able to memorize the arcane nonsense that are command names, or the design-by-committee naming choices of moronic PMs who can't stop lapping up whatever bullshit marketing tells them to
Looking at the Slack icon right now, and it just looks blurry and low resolution, same for Calendar and some others, it's awful.
The maps icon is the most egregious. It makes my head hurt.
So people do use Apple maps and that too on a mac.
Usually I just go with the flow, because what else I could do :)?
But somehow the missing App Laucher made me bit sad (well, to the extent software can make one sad :)) - even though I can always switch to Finder to browse apps, App Launcher has some nice visual quality to it that makes it more pleasant to use for me..
I agree with a lot of what you said but the app launcher was dumb. It was just the iPhone’s Home Screen ported to Mac.
Spotlight is way faster than that when you’re at a keyboard. I barely even use the dock, just command space and type in the first few letters of the program I want. Clicking is for people with too much time on their hands.
It was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. After trying out the preview for a month, the writing was on the wall, and I began the process of switching to a Thinkpad with Linux. I am now fully off macOS for the first time in 20 years of being an Apple die hard. I could use a lot of emotionally loaded words to describe how I feel about this release, but the long and short of it is that I am no longer the target audience for Apple.
Similar story here. Loong time Apple fan, but as they say.. "trust arrives walking, but leaves on a horse". I'm real mad!
I installed tahoe in a virtualbuddy VM to see how it was before running on my main system... and.... I will be definitely be keeping Sequoia for a while (at least a year, probably).
If the situation does not improve in the meantime, I will probably switch to a framework laptop running cosmic desktop or something like that.
Similar story here, but going from Windows to Linux. It seems like Linux is gaining some market share with the OS disasters from both Apple and Microsoft.
Just run linux with utm!
I try not to indulge in negativity and scorn, but I agree with these sentiments. This is resoundly a regression. Text overlapping on text, searchboxes that are broken and now just function as text boxes, increased latency throughout the operating system.
It's so bad that it's kind of fascinating. Unfortunately, even "Reduce Transparency" doesn't fix the LG update.
Yeah similar situation here. I've been running it since basically the day after WWDC, and I've just had this sinking feeling that its so bad, they wouldn't be able to fix it before release. Or, they don't even view it as something that needs fixing.
I'll begrudgingly get a couple more years out of this personal M2 Air, but my engineering team is prepping to do upgrades on some older M1 Pros we've had since launch, and after seeing Tahoe, the CTO and I formed a plan to give devs the option of getting either an M4 Pro or a Framework. We haven't launched yet, but I think a solid number of our engineers are going to opt for the Framework, hopefully as high as half.
It’s ugly as hell and plain stupid.
I couldn’t watch the WWDC and when I saw the screenshots I thought it was a joke. Giant buttons with weird padding and extreme transparency effects.
This is going to sound harsh but it looks like when “working” from home, Apple engineers outsourced their work to amateurs online.
I simply cannot believe that Apple is shipping an OS this out of touch with elegance.
Steve Jobs said in his inauguration speech that he slept on the floor to take typography classes and later obsessed over having great typefaces on Macs. Steve would’ve burn the place down instead of shipping a crap like this.
Or maybe Steve would tell us all that we're "holding it wrong".
There are also under-the-hood changes that I found truly upsetting: among other things, all the Emacs versions I've tried (stock GNU Emacs or Mac Port, downloaded binary blobs and compiled on my machine) are either immediately unusable or become so slow after a day that they are almost unusable. Tracing things on Instruments suggests a culprit (the culprit?) is NSAutofillHeuristicController. This is not a new feature, but I'm guessing with them pushing Apple Intelligence it was rewritten. AFAIK no obvious way to disable this "feature". (Turning off Apple Intelligence doesn't seem to do it.)
I'm contemplating rolling back to Sequoia.
I was on RC too, for a few days, and also uninstalled. I'm glad I did, the fresh Sequoia install feels much nicher. Even with reduce transparency on, the design was too ugly and the drab gray icon jails for non-squircle icons were downright offensive. First macOS version I'm gonna skip and I've been a day one updater since mountain lion, very sad.
lol are you an ATP listener?
I don’t think the icon situation is enough to keep me off the release, but agree that the design is just kind of a mess and not my taste.
ATP was enough to convince me to tell people at work not to upgrade right away.
Last time I did this was ... the version that removed 32bit compatibility, I think?
Haha I'm subscribed but haven't listened to that episode, I took the squircle jail term from the arstechnica tahoe review.
Ugh I upgraded excitedly and can't stand the UI - there is no upside to any of it. Also for some reason things are also beachballing and VSCode keeps crashing - new M4 MBP. All the system log errors are present exactly as they were and my USB-C dock with Ethernet port still doesn't work.
> SO much padding
No idea on macOS, but turn on Reduce Transparency on iOS and there’s tons of padding most of the time, but then sometimes zero padding. And I mean zero. The edges of buttons and text are at the edge of the underlying background. It’s…embarrassing.
> they think their users are dumb
Aren’t they/we? :-)
*majority of
Well, hasn’t this been the single biggest reason for their sustained stellar returns year after year where often (or maybe most of the time) the biggest change their devices (like iPhones) used to see was the version number change e.g. iPhone 13 -> 14.
For the rest of their users — they make a noise (which is not even feeble in comparison), bicker around, lament the fact that the other alternative is Google (Windows and the Wild Linux West), and they stay. Rinse, repeat.
It would be one thing if they excessively rounded and padded the windows, but they shipped with a bunch of different padding and border radii. So far I’ve counted 4 different borders, and I’m sure there’s more.
Yeah, 4 different corner radius sizes is where I’m at too. Won’t be surprised if there are more.
I just counted 5 different radii in Apple’s apps alone. I also discovered they space the window control buttons in all sorts of different spots to, so it’s even more insane than just multiple radii.
Everything I've seen of it looks a disaster. I'll wait for macOS 27.
I have a Mac M1 that's been on MacOS 14 Sonoma for a couple years at this point - I've not seen anything even remotely interesting in later releases that could incentivize me to roll the dice and upgrade.
My Mac is also on Sonoma. I'm sure there are some incremental features that I would appreciate, but I'm always worried about what's going to break or be worse with the next OS update.
I'll update my phone because iOS jumps are bigger in terms of functionality. But 14 years in, OSX just doesn't have a lot of new bells and whistles that I care about. The last time I updated, I was only excited about getting Sidecar functionality so I could dual-screen onto my iPad. When a minor feature like this is the most memorable, that's saying something.
I think the only thing that would get me to update would be notable AI improvements. But seeing what I've seen of AI on iOS, I'm in no rush.
Waiting an extra year to jump on new macOS releases has been the norm for sane people for quite some time now.
It sucks if you buy a new mac which isn't supported by older macOS releases though, so maybe don't do that for a year or so. I guess you sometimes just have to put your new Apple device in storage for a year until there's functional software.
For me I simply don't upgrade ever until I'm forced to, usually by an app that I want to use.
As someone without an iPhone and who doesn't really use included desktop apps, there are simply never any improvements in the OS for me, only regressions.
Waiting an extra year to jump on new macOS releases has been the norm for sane people for quite some time now.
/Looking forward to macOS Fresno.
I made the mistake of updating my phone, and immediately regretted it. We tried Liquid Glass already, it was called mid-aughts Windows. It sucked then, and it sucks now.
I'm glad I'm not the only one getting Vista vibes with this look.
and vista was MORE beautiful than this vomit
That was my experience with liquid glass on mobile. I’d heard it was bad, thought it couldn’t possible be that bad then tried it and was flabbergasted. Really unfortunate.
The Finder looks like shit. The sidebar is like badly retrofited from another program, perhaps from some crappy Gnome theme.
The Control Center (or however they call the drop down window with quick controls for volume, wifi, brigthness, etc) has floating isolated icons like crap.
Bring back Scott Forstall. Give him a big bonus. Let him fix this shit.
Otherwise, the code changes and actual features are probably fine.
I’m glad to see another member of Club Forstall here. My biggest wish for Apple is to bring back Forstall. Letting him go was their biggest mistake.
It's very unstable, indexing doesn't work anymore
Can you post screenshots of what you mean?
I see grossly rounded corners in some apps, but I don't see the other stuff like gaps in window corners for full screen apps. I may have some config bit flipped that has disabled those.
Yeah, the new corner radius is ugly but by and large, it's not much different than before, from what I see so far.
this is what I'm seeing with Safari, WhatsApp and Chrome all maximized but with various radius on each corner.
If this were April 1st, it might make sense. But this is a major OS release by a brand that's famous for its design aesthetic. What the actual fuck Apple? Does nobody test anything anymore? How did this get out of the lab? Who exactly is steering this ship? Tim Cook's days at the helm might be winding down.
Good lord, that's awful. I'm definitely firmly in Camp Apple for the most part, but this just looks actually atrocious.
Try running console with tmux. The window menu just floats there instead of being snugly fit against the bottom from end to end.
Steve Jobs would never have allowed this to be released.
> There's SO much padding and wasted screen real estate, disjointed looking floating inner panels, window corners that are so rounded you see gaps in full screen apps, inconsistencies everywhere and - well, I could go on.
Remember in the beforetimes when we decoupled themes from OS updates? Wouldn't it be nice if once again we discovered this lost technology that let different users have different UIs?
How hard is it to downgrade?
My progression:
1. Apple photos redesign from last year sucks and I’m already frustrated with iCloud abstraction and lack of cross platform friendliness
2. Switch to an alternate cloud photos provider
3. Find out about Liquid Glass, looks like shit, impulse sell my MacBook Pro in favor of a Framework
4. Surprise surprise, it’s actually the year of the Linux desktop. My gaming situation is way better on Linux and it does everything my Mac did. The only compromise is my need to carry a big extra battery around.
Did you notice any impact on battery life?
Mine has been fine, literally no perceptible differences on my MBA M4 since I loaded the public beta a few weeks ago.
Training/preparing users for upcoming AR glasses interfaces?
I've been running the RC and I have had no issues. Some of the design choices (sidebars particularly) are strange, but it's generally fine.
I recommend not overcomplicating your life and just staying on the latest macOS.
It took a day of getting used to it, but I have had no issues either. Some of the commentary on this thread seems overly critical to me, but you tend to see that on any Apple thread on HN. There’s stuff I like, some stuff I don’t, but in the end I’ll adapt.
I think sime people just hate change. I am convinced that some folks complaining here will be complaining when MacOS 28 comes out and changes some OS 26 feature they have grown to like.
So the Gnome 3 gang were ahead of their time?
Indeed, gives old Gnome vibe.
> Basically the vibe I get from it is that they think their users are dumb
Your point would have been much more convincing had you refrained from this sort of pejorative assigning of motives. It wasn't necessary.
I've been running the betas to the final release and there are a number of basic affordances and system improvements that are definitely worthwhile. I will not be going back.
Having said that, while I know they had good intentions with this whole design, and probably really thought they were pursing a winner, what a massive, massive miss. This is such an aesthetic disaster that I'm just in awe. I feel like they had a huge push to do some seemingly substantial change, particularly on the mobile side, given the stumbles in the AI space, so they changed a lot of things maybe without quite enough thought.
Ugly as hell. More dead space. On the mobile side they released an update to iOS just today from the RC a few days ago that removes some of the particularly stupid animations (the app tray did some dumb thing where it expanded and shrank, and that and a few similar things are gone).
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I float around the VC world in SF. Several of the women that work for VCs in decent positions don't know how to maximize a window on the MacBooks.
I decided to install this and the updated iOS today to see how I felt about it.
My very initial impressions on MacOS:
(1) I like the look of Safari better and the Mail app compared to the prior designs. They both look really nice to me and the Mail app especially looks like a huge improvement in terms of design unification with some of the features like summaries and unsubscribe options that looked bolted on in the past now blending in seamlessly.
(2) I really, really don't like the new icons! Especially so on iOS.
(3) On iOS the app group/folders look terrible to me with the way they distort my wallpaper. Not a fan.
(4) A lot of people are complaining about transparent icons. It's not a valid complaint and is strong evidence whoever is saying that hasn't used the new OS as that is a choice you can make if you want. The default is not transparent.
(5) The increased radii in some places doesn't seem to have any meaningful impact to my information density. A simple comparison of Chrome (old styling) and Safari (with the liquid glass design) shows that Safari has a few pixels fewer in height search + tab bar as a concrete example.
(6) Messages app in MacOS looks like shit. I hate almost everything about it.
(7) Spotlight search has marked improvements! UI is nicer and functionality has expanded greatly (eg clipboard search).
I really like the Apps change. Instead of opening up the icons full screen, it opens in a spotlight search window.
Except when I forgot the name of an app
Which is shit because with launchpad you had muscle memory.
Imagine you no longer have pages with icons on your phone and instead only have a search bar
I guess thats personal preference because you’re describing exactly how I use both macOS and iOS.
I can’t be bothered by app icon locations or launchpad. Just CMD+Space and boom its there.
> Imagine you no longer have pages with icons on your phone and instead only have a search bar
I haven’t had pages of icons on my phone since the App Library was added. Generally the app I want is right there and if not a couple of letters in the search bar and there it is
I have to believe that Apple had anonymized telemetry that told them how many people used Launchpad and acted as justification to nix it. I remember when it came out, and I probably used it more in the first month when it was novel and new than I have since then. I'm sorry a feature that you liked is gone, but I'm sure it wasn't done blindly.
Your “Imagine…” hypothetical is literally how I run my iPhone. I don’t need piles of icons cluttering up my screen. I can pull down and type 1-2 characters and get any app on my phone, easily.
More room for glanceable, informational widgets that way.
Hah. I can pull down and type 1-2 characters and my app might show up. Eventually.
Sadly you can’t swipe left and instantly type into the App Library search - that search bar actually works pretty well.
I have a 16 pro and pull down and type a couple of characters is delivering apps to me pretty much instantly
What I find weird: you can have light icons with color, dark icons with color, but not clear (and/or tinted) icons with color.
It’s a strange omission.
I weirdly like the clear apps on iOS. Less visually stimulating.
Spotlight improvements are one of the only things I actually like about it so far, it's unbelievable how bad messages app looks... we're certainly losing some space in cases where they're doing this weird sidebar container
No more *poof* animation when you drag a control out of the toolbar during customization.
The poof animation was such a lovely touch. Removing it feels like a crime honestly.
Most of the friendly computer interactions are being removed. I presume someone thinks it takes too much effort to replicate. They’re making the computer soulless, just like Windows, they might as well remove the Mac name as well.
But I was told Liquid Glass was going to add a bit more whimsy to the OS!
I swear I don't usually complain about UI styling updates, because it's usually not a big deal - but this looks really, really bad [1]. It's less functional with bizarre transparency choices destroying legibility, and big rounded corners taking up more dead space. And stylistically, the layouts just look unbalanced and amateurish (It reminds me of what happens when I attempt to do CSS layouts). Most Linux desktops unironically look better than this.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/09/macos-26-tahoe-the-a...
It's ironic that Apple makes screen size incredibly expensive for every millimeter - and then designs UI which proceeds to waste that pricey real-estate as well as user time by burying options (or worse, simply removing many advanced user options "because they don't fit").
Wow. I know I’m not the first to say it, but it really does give me Windows Vista vibes. No bueno.
vista was pretty nice looking tbh (or, it was to me, especially the black ultimate edition with the frosted glass).
It just chugged like madness, the UAC dialogs were slow to fade in (and numerous) and the widgets and moving wallpaper was about 10y too early.
I was distinctly not happy with the control panel changes, but hindsight tells me that I should have been.
Vista made me jump ship to Linux on 2006, where I remained for a good 17 years.
Maybe I'm going to jump back to Linux because of this update.
It’s funny how different people saw things. UAC was hated back then but I was a Linux user primarily and when I bought my laptop I kept the Windows Vista while dual booting. UAC mostly made sense and worked like gksudo.
I remember saying so once and got flamed by people online because of course Microsoft didn’t copy this from Linux and of course gksudo was much better.
But the subjective experience I had was the same. IMHO the greatest victory with Electron has been that the OS wars have practically ended.
Imagine if Steve saw this...
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/tahoe...
I had the same issue on first start, the icons had to load while I was scrolling.
my iphone 16 and m1 mac are much slower on this.
Think something is borked there. Mine doesn't do that.
Windows Aero is back
Aero was peak HCI compared to this
I'll give it a try, I installed the iOS and iPadOS betas and I actually like some of the changes.
But I do not understand how the color-tinted UI/icons ever got shipped. They just look... bad...
I absolutely hate it. I guess we’ll probably get used to it but until then… gah ugliest MacOS ever?
Don't think of it as the ugliest MacOS ever, think of it as the most beautiful MacOS of the rest of your life.
What's not to love about macOS Vista?
Hoping the next update is the iOS 8 to the iOS 7 redesign and then it'll be fine.
You'll get used to it.
So far the only thing bothering me so far is the way the tabs look (in Finder and Safari). And I did turn on the menu bar background.
Have the tabs in Finder always been slow to appear? Right now there is a noticeable delay from when I press cmd+tab to when tab animates itself into existence, reminds me of lag in windows 11.
For me it is very fast to appear. I am on a M3 MacBook Pro.
It seems instant to me?
I do dislike how toy-like the user interface looks, but I really hate how illegible notifications are on iPadOS. I had to turn on the reduce transparency setting so I could read the notification text against my lock screen wallpaper.
You've been disabled by Apple. There's no other way to characterize your (and my) need for an accessibility setting to make the OS usable.
You're just old, kids love this shit
The reason Liquid Glass on macOS specifically is getting so much blowback is that it isn't just updating the translucency effect with the new glass refraction effect - they've also increased the border radius of most windows, increased paddings in toolbars, sidebars, etc. and overall made the UI much less information-dense, which is wild for a desktop OS. If they had just changed the translucency effect, I think this would be much better received.
Personally, I'm sticking with macOS Sequoia for now, and if macOS 27 goes even more in the less-information-density direction, I'll probably fully move off of macOS, which is a shame as a 20-year Apple user.
The only thing that really bothers me with the macOS 26 design update is the complete lack of contrast. Everything is white-on-white with super subtle shadows. You can't see what tab is selected in Safari, you can't see what is a button, etc. And it doesn't even look good - it just looks like something is broken, like a texture failed to load.
Border radius on everything on Apple devices has been progressively increasing, eventually I expect everything to be circular. No rectangles allowed.
And then they'll go back to rectangles and call it "innovation", "giving users more space"
Welcome to fashion cycles. Windows 7 has come back around.
If there is an alternative to the m-series that lets me keep the battery life I'd jump ship. The m-series chips are just so good though
I’m using one of the Lenovo Aura editions. It doesn’t match the MacBook, but I also don’t worry about battery at all any more and perf is just fine for my needs. I don’t miss Apple at all. Now, if only there was a Linux phone…
You'd jump ship because of the .0 release of Tahoe? Really? People get a little hysterical about things like this.
You know you don't have to upgrade to it, right? They'll support Sequoia for years, and you could even be running Sonoma if you wanted.
The response to this design is likely to be so overwhelmingly negative that we'll see a lot of subtle retreats in the point releases going forward, and when the macOS 7 version replaces TahoeVista, you can upgrade then.
It's not really hysterical to want to jump a ship that feels like is turning into a clown cruise. I can use Windows, Linux, and OSX equally well for work, even if I deploy to AWS in the end. However, I love the osx aesthetic and MacBook hardware, since around Snow Leopard, which is when I switched from Linux to OSX. Since then, OSX osx gotten worse with every release, and Tahoe is a very low, new low. At some point, it becomes not worth it. Just like it's not worth staying on the previous release of OSX while random apps and extensions lose compatibility. It's not hysteria, it's just the straw that breaks the camels back. The only thing is, I really like the M4 speed. There is nothing that runs as fast, and as cool, that I am aware of. If I wasn't doing a bunch of processing right now, I would probably switch. Non-hysterically.
Sequoia is absolutely, undeniably better than Sonoma. Sonoma is undeniably better than Ventura. And so on. This notion that it's all downhill is just noisy nonsense as people wave their hands and have a tantrum that they don't like some change. And to be clear, every single macOS release yields this. It's incredibly boring.
Like, it's fun to whine about the imperfection of macOS...versus Windows or Linux? LOL, come on. And just like you and probably everyone else on here, I use macOS, Windows and Linux every single day. Pretending that a couple of aesthetic changes are the big "straw that broke the camel's back" is just so lame.
It is hysterical. It's noisy nonsense. This "fine this is it" tantrum that people pull is such a tired gimmick.
And personally I think the aesthetics of macOS/iOS/iPadOS 26 are terrible. They're inevitably going to start easing down the heinous translucency and will claw back on the stupid round corners. Aside from that the system has a lot of fundamental improvements that will benefit everyone.
But no, no one on Sequoia is going to suddenly be without apps or extensions. When apps start abandoning versions it's usually a couple of versions out.
In some sense, some releases are always better than the previous version. Of course, Apple developers do some valuable work. However, there are changes that are not "undeniably better". I don't think every Sonoma feature was better. I don't want widgets, I don't want notifications, I don't want pretty much anything they've added in Tahoe. Not a single thing, that I'm aware of. And, now it's ugly as heck, to me.
I don't know what you're picturing, but I promise you, I am not being hysterical, I'm just annoyed. I feel like, when you "its hysterical", you think my mouth is foaming, my face is red, my heart rate is above average... It's definitely not. I'm just looking at CPU benchmarks and Windows ARM compatibility discussions. Honestly, it's kind of fun to have a reason to switch. I used to run hackintoshes, because Apple hardware was overpriced. But now, unfortunately, it is the other way around, and running Windows on M4 seems impossible.
Anyway, I don't think it's a huge deal, but it is definitely a straw that can break many peoples backs in terms of their preferred development environment. I know many people who have switched to Linux from the previous releases too. Un-hysterically, also.
It's not just Tahoe though, there have been more and more UX papercuts over the years.
Here's an example of one such UI regression, that started with Big Sur and now got slightly worse in Tahoe (written by someone who is very knowledgeable about macOS): https://eclecticlight.co/2025/06/15/last-week-on-my-mac-fide...
Is cropping PDFs to rounded corners (without a way to disable it) enough to get someone to switch to another OS? Probably not, but it's still IMO a UI regression regardless.
> They'll support Sequoia for years, and you could even be running Sonoma if you wanted.
Unless the app you want doesn't support them anymore. Or the corporate policy forces an upgrade.
I don't think you can expect any major UI changes in Tahoe at this point. Maybe the next version of macOS will return to its desktop roots a bit more.
Except that it's impossible to downgrade to previous MacOS versions on new Mac computers
I feel like every macOS update has been worse than the last, since like 2015-2018 or so. Still, their only real competition is Windows 11, which isn’t well received either.
I'm still on Sonoma on my Mac, but I've recently been splitting my time between macOS and Linux and I'm starting to be pretty happy with Linux.
The main problem I had with living in a Gnome desktop environment, is with the keyboard. I'm not willing to abandon my use of Emacs control+meta sequences for cursor and editing movements everywhere in the GUI. On macOS, this works because the command (super/Win on Linux/Windows) key is used for common shortcuts and the control key is free for editing shortcuts.
I spent a day or so hacking around with kanata[0], which is a kernel level keyboard remapping tool, that lets you define keyboard mapping layers in a similar way you might with QMK firmware. When I press the 'super/win/cmd' it activates a layer which maps certain sequences to their control equivalents, so I can create tabs, close windows, copy and paste (and many more) like my macOS muscle memory wants to do. Other super key sequences (like Super-L for lock desktop or Super-Tab for window cycling) are unchanged. Furthermore, when I hit the control or meta/alt/option key, it activates a layer where Emacs editing keys are emulated using the Gnome equivalents. For example, C-a and C-e are mapped to home/end, etc.
After doing this, and tweaking my Gnome setup for another day or so, I am just as comfortable on my Linux machine as I am on my Mac.
Oh, apple would have to do much worse for windows 11 to look good.
Yeah me too. I think I liked Mavericks or Yosemite or something and have pretty much hated every upgrade since.
Possibly, although I definitely don't recall the macOS Big Sur re-design being as disruptive UI-wise as Tahoe is.
Just thinking out loud.
Maybe some people took remote working really seriously and just delegated their work to amateurs online while they traveled the world.
Just saying. There’s no other explanation to how bad this is.
This is incompetence on display. Hundreds of people were involved in this from concept, to implementation, to testing. And they all thought this was okay.
I am the only one to think that these days, GNOME and KDE are more usable than anything made by Microsoft or Apple? I think part of the reason is that devs working on these projects don't have an incentive to make arbitrary changes like people who need to justify their paychecks.
(This about iOS, not Mac, but obviously a lot is similar.)
I might be in the minority on hn, but I’m using iOS 26 for the first time today and am pretty happy with the new design. For one, it’s a lot snappier and faster. I’m glad they finally did something about the slow-ass animations iOS had in a lot of places. Secondly, it has a lot more personality. I enjoy that. Thirdly, they finally moved more basic UI stuff close to the thumbs instead of literally 6 inches away at the top of the screen. Love that. Knowing app designers, my apps are about to get easier to use just by migrating to the new UX concepts Apple is pushing.
The glass look is mostly fine. iOS had contrast issues before, and I don’t think it’s any worse. If anything, it’s more adaptive to different types of backgrounds now.
There are some visual glitches and weird things, but they’re pretty minor and will be resolved with time. The glass panes for, say, folders look nice, and I like it more than the previous blur.
I don’t mind the visual appearance of iOS 26. My main gripe is that this update introduces some pointless additional taps for common interactions.
Here’s some of the UX regressions:
- Apple Music: the “next track” button is only visible if the tab bar is expanded. So now we have to scroll or tap, wait for an animation and then click next. - Web views search web for selected text: previously we could highlight, swipe the action menu and then tap the button. Now we have to highlight, tap the small arrow, wait for the horizontal list to animate into a vertical list, tap the button. They removed the ability to swipe the action menu. - Tab bars: since 2007, you could change tabs with one tap. Now it’s one or two taps, depending on whether it’s collapsed or expanded.
The worst thing is Safari removing all tabs button.
Quick way is to pinch out with two fingers but that is impossible one-handed.
Another is to swipe up (or left/right) on address bar but that often triggers app switching because he indicator is 3mm lower
It’s still there, just moved. Tap the … icon next to the address bar. “All tabs” will be under your thumb.
Settings > Safari > Set tabs to “Bottom”. This gives you back the old style bottom bar, including the all tabs button.
The “Compact” UI option is complete and utter garbage.
I don't really like the look, but I noticed it feels a lot faster, too. That is certainly welcomed!
I feel like we’ve gone full circle. For decades Apple hardware sucked and was badly overpriced, but you paid the price to enjoy running Mac OS X. Now Apple makes amazing hardware (especially laptops) but the drawback is that you have to run macOS on them.
I really wish Asahi Linux had more support, I would have bought a couple M4 Minis.
Without knowing your specific workloads, I'd imagine an M2 Pro Mac mini (which is supported by Asahi) is still plenty fast.
If you don't need the battery life of a MacBook and you're happy getting a desktop device, there's plenty of machines running new AMD chips that are just as fast as an M series mac, if not faster. And they'll run Linux with no compromises. Check out Bee-Link (https://www.bee-link.com/) for some mac-inspired hardware.
Whew. Those screenshots: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/09/macos-26-tahoe-the-a...
As a KDE Plasma dev, I always counted on us getting better, but I didn't expect the competition to get so much worse. We'd be flamed to high and heaven for shipping broken notification popups and rendering glitches like that in a prod release.
What happened internally to cause this, I wonder?
The rumor mill speculates that Apple needed to ship something big and flashy to distract people from calling them out on their failure to deliver on the AI features promised (and previewed!) more than a year ago.
There’s no way this was developed by Apple. I keep thinking that they outsourced the macOS development to some amateurs online and took a year off traveling the world.
Looking at the screenshots and review videos, I cannot believe how ugly and out of proportion it is. Normally, there would be a consistent design and some people like it while others don’t. But this is simply ugly.
At this point, I have Plasma configured as a better macOS shell. Not a clone, those always look bad, but layouts close enough that my macOS muscle memory can't tell the difference.
Wow those looks broken. I switched to Mac precisely thinking Apple knew best. Whatever happened to don’t change it if it ain’t broken?
My guess is organizational inertia around dependency chains
I always considered the butterfly keyboard[1] the point at which Apple's design system jumped the shark as it focused on it's own aesthetics vs. building quality and reliable products.
Funny enough, it's the only time period since 1999 that I was apple free for a while. My MBP broke. I've previously had a butterfly keyboard on my work mac, and it got replaced on a regular bases. While unfortunate for a work computer, this was not acceptable as my personal one with no spares)
Thankfully Apple returned to making great products that work, and I bought the next MBP.
Seeing that Apple's returning to it's "design roots"[2], I really hope they do not loose sight of building great products that work well for their customers.
[1] https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Butterfly_keyboard
[2] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2025-09-14/apple-...
> Seeing that Apple's returning to it's "design roots"
There's a very important and relevant design quote from Steve Jobs that keeps popping up in my head:
When Steve died, so did the Apple we all knew and loved.
I worked at Apple in the years shortly after his death, and was trying to convince myself this wasn't true, but it is.
Tim should find someone smart and willing to take a real look at the company and ceed power to the next generation.
> I always considered the butterfly keyboard[1] the point at which Apple's design system jumped the shark as it focused on it's own aesthetics vs. building quality and reliable products.
This statement describes pretty much every mouse Apple ever made, from the circular ones to the horrendous magic mouse with charging port underneath.
Ooh, the mouse myth! Love it when this one gets dragged out. Turns out it’s not really a problem - the battery life is measured in months, you’ll get several hours from plugging it in for thirty seconds, and days if you plug it in for a few minutes while getting coffee.
People love to hate it, but it’s never been a real problem. The ergonomics are bad. The charging isn’t.
This is true, but Apple mice have always been consistently bad. A laptop where getting a single grain of dirt under the keyboard meant you couldn't type was a very new thing in 2015.
> Funny enough, it's the only time period since 1999 that I was apple free for a while.
Same here. After the butterfly keyboard era, I spent about 5 years with Windows 10/11 and powershell, then WSL. There's still a lot of annoyance in the Windows space (NTFS is slow due to all the filesystem filters), but Linux package managers are much better than homebrew and WSL does make Windows a pretty reasonable developer system. I'm back on the MacOS now but I wouldn't hate a nice Windows machine.
Yes, WSL2 is quite good. WSL1 was even a step up, but WSL2 gives me an environment that I can use quite well and be productive with.
The NTFS speed thing is kinda amazing. I use cursor on MacOS. My friend has a windows laptop which is likely 2-3x more powerful than my Macbook Air. I can install a new cursor in 2-3s tops, on the Windows machine it takes minutes. Wow. It's all file copying speed.
Awful cheap UX, cartoonish style with huge padding, lack of structure and hierarchy. The spacing is inconsistent, everything is rounded. The app launcher stutters, the icons load one by one, it flickers each time I do the 4 finger gesture. Why does the volume bubble have tick marks but the one in the menu doesn't? The trash icon looks like the windows recycle bin or gnome theme from 20 years ago, not sure why it's flattened like that.
You explained the design inconsistencies the best. Though I’m worried that instead of fixing the underlying problems, they’re just going to make a bullet list of what people mention here and change those only. Then we’re going to have an OS where no two screens have the same paddings etc.
What the hell happened to the Apple design guides. Did all the engineers who read them retire.
> they’re just going to make a bullet list of what people mention here
bold of you to assume they're reading this (and will fix this)
Oh boy, I opened the settings app to change the wallpaper, the scrollbar gets cut off by the right bottom rounded corner. The wallpapers can be scrolled horizontally and they show up under the side rail (blurred), looks like a glitch, and I still can't resize this window to see more of the wallpapers. They may have fixed the custom color bug though.
It really does look like ass on the laptop. Maybe it works on mobile, idk, but terrible on laptop. Also not a good sign since apple is not known for rolling back releases.
I think this might be the one.
Realistically speaking, they’re not going to rollback anything. They even kept and even double downed on that’s stupid photos app redesign on iOS.
At least the review sites are making some noise this time instead of parroting Apple’s announcements. They all sold us that awful photos app as the great new thing.
It’s like a crap Linux theme pretending to be windows vista or something. I don’t get it.
I should know better, but I'm still surprised they're shipping this version of Liquid Glass. Performance is stable but there are so many UI bugs and inconsistencies that haven't been fixed from early betas, including low-hanging fruit that a second year design student would notice. I don't mind change or interface elements moving around but keynote-level UI overhauls should be fully implemented at launch, otherwise people are stuck using a broken OS for a year.
At this point I'm doubtful that these will be addressed in the 26.X updates, so the wait begins for 27.0...
Yeah I shouldn't be surprised this was allowed to launch today, but yet I am.
I ran the whole beta on all my devices. Every new beta I'd ask myself "Surely they fixed 'x' by now, right?" and we advanced, beta after beta, with the same bugs and performance regressions all the way up to launch.
The icons still need to redraw in the settings app and app library. It's overall sluggish. The drop shadows are huge in the finder and other apps top bar. If you turn on always show scrollbars they get cut off at a weird angle due to the excessive corner radius.
My iPhone 16 PM runs hot all the time, even on release now, vs. iOS 18.
I don't mind the transparency or glass effects. I actually like it in some areas. But man does it need some serious polish and bug fixing, and a lot of time and effort spent on consistency.
This should never have went live in this state. I consider .0 just another beta, really. Actual release will probably be .2 or .3
> I consider .0 just another beta, really. Actual release will probably be .2 or .3
This is good advice for Apple software in general. Always let it burn in for a couple patch releases. Being a guinea pig for Apple is a losing bet.
I’ve been using Omarchy (Arch+Hyprland) as my daily driver for over a month. It is faster, prettier and more efficient than macOS in my opinion. I have a Framework 16” on order. I can’t wait to get it.
They went way too far with the corner radii and pill shapes imo, looks like a Fisher Price toy. Some inner buttons retained the old radii and don't match the outer window radii anymore.
It's truly hideous to look at. I really can't believe they went for these massively rounded corners. They're too stubborn to allow you to select an option for right angled corners again. They just tinker as there's no other real UI enhancements.
> They're too stubborn to allow you to select an option for right angled corners again.
"right angled corners again"
I have a feeling you aren't and haven't been a Mac user for a long time. When was the last time Macs had right angled corners!? 30+ years ago?
It’s a trend that’s visible in other designs too, like Material 3 Expressive.
I’m not a fan of Windows but I believe that probably the best modern UI design system for desktops right now is probably the flavor of Fluent used in Windows 11. It still retains somewhat desktop-like information density, doesn’t go overboard on radii, and has a touch of depth. I’d like to see more design languages exploring in its general direction.
I still find KDE superior in productivity, information density and "useful effects" category.
Apple still has the best "get out of the way, be invisible" UI.
Both are valid ways to approach to a problem, but I like KDE's batteries included, infinitely customizable way better.
I think KDE has the right spirit but its execution leaves something to be desired.
I don't think "defaults to windows-like" is a bad choice for newcomers.
I don't customize it heavily either. Move tray, clock and menus to the top, a-la GNOME2, leave taskbar at the bottom, both auto-hidden and narrower than screen.
Add four desktops as a 2x2 grid, re-enable old CTRL+ALT+$ARROW keyboard shortcuts, add a couple of usability effects with custom key combinations and two active corners, and I'm done.
Some applications (Konsole, KATE) get custom fonts and themes, but everything else is bog standard. Setting it up takes 30-ish minutes, and it's the same config for decades now. Probably because of sharpening the same tool and optimizing without knowing.
Then, I can just concentrate and fly on that environment.
Also, they have improved a lot in the small areas where it was lacking. You can use your system without a terminal if you want, plus Baloo works really well.
I would argue that it actually doesn’t go far enough in windows-like-ness to be viable for a lot of people, and for those who prefer a mac-like setup the possible customization doesn’t take it far enough in that direction, either. It’s not Windows or macOS, it’s KDE, and that’s fine but I think there need to be environments more specifically aimed at people who are happy with their current commercial OS setups.
Definitely the “be invisible” part.
It reminds me of the Wii U interface[1]. Except less playful. It really is a disaster.
totally agree, this is kind of an embarrassing look for supposed workstations
The humiliation " " "
Whoa, you can now search clipboard history. Go to Spotlight Search, Command+4. You'll get a list of entries, each with a copy button, and is searchable. Even shows the app it was copied in.
At last Apple implemented a decent clipboard history. KDE has this thing for a decade now, I guess...
KDE also can encode entries as QR codes, so you can make URLs transferable to your phone or whatnot.
-- Sent from my MacBook Air.
If you use KDE Connect, your clipboard history immediately goes to your phone's clipboard :)
macOS/ios can also share clipboards for awhile now.
For KDE Connect, does the phone have to be an Android or ?
KDE Connect works on macOS, Windows, Linux, Android and iOS
KDE Connect exists on both iOS and Android, though some functions like text messages aren't available on iOS.
KDE doesn't have infinite clipboard history yet, like the GPaste extension for GNOME Shell has.
CopyQ works for forever history for me, it also doesn't save copied passwords, which is nice.
How does it detect passwords? Usually those are just plain-text when copied.
Either way, I think it is better to not copy passwords to the clipboard or the selection, but store and transfer them via password-manager/browser/etc APIs.
Comment was deleted :(
More like, almost 3 decades.
Windows has this with Win+V for those wondering.
Including passwords from password managers?
Pretty handy, right :)?
And seriously, managers like 1Password clear the clipboard after some time. I would guess that there’s some clipboard API that allows managers to exclude copied passwords from being permanently added to the history.
Still, there are pieces of data that one might not want to store in such unobvious place as clipboard history so it’s good to know about it.
Does that mean that add-on clipboard managers like Maccy are obsolete now?
Wow, didn't realise there was more than one tab
There were already a zillion and one apps (Maccy, ClipMenu, Jumpcut, Flycut, Alfred, ...) that provided this.
It'll be one of the first things I turn off whenever I get around to installing it ~6+ months from now.
Apple no longer cares about disabled people.
Transparent UI, with controls sitting on top of arbitrary and changing content can NEVER be legible/discernible. Apple knows this, but fashion was more important than function and they decided, "who cares about disabled people, anyway."
Microsoft learned this lesson back in the Vista era but Apple's charging ahead with this terrible set of changes that will literally disable millions of users, people who will need to visit the accessibility settings to reduce the transparency.
It's a sad day when a company that has often lead in accessibility ships the least accessible OS in modern history. I guess it was a nice run having a Big Tech company to point to as a good example of doing various accessibility things well. Damn.
It might be more accurate to say that they are giving non-disabled people an experience akin to that of disabled people. ;)
I've been submitting endless feedback about how Liquid Arse breaks dark mode during the beta. I keep seeing dark text on dark backgrounds all over the place in both Tahoe and iOS 26, for example: https://imgur.com/a/R3DTcSd
I've pretty much given up with submitting feedback though.
CarPlay has dark text on dark backgrounds in the latest version of iOS. And I’m talking about stock apps like Messages, not some obscure text buried somewhere deep in the operating system.
Absolutely brutal.
> Apple no longer cares about disabled people.
Did you enable the relevant accessibility options that are there for this purpose?
Why do that? If they did any investigation into the accessibility options whatsoever then they wouldn't be able to treat us to Kanye style analysis.
I'm sorry, but that's not a logical stance. If this were the method that anyone in the industry used (which absolutely nobody does) all interfaces would be high contrast 150pt font, no transparency, two color, because that's what my grandma needs.
My post is agreeing with you. It's sarcasm. Please try to parse it again.
Text emojis were invented by the grey beards out of necessity, not cuteness. ;)
> literally disable millions of users, people who will need to visit the accessibility settings to reduce the transparency.
I'm confused. You're condemning them for not accommodating the disabled, yet admitting they provide an accommodation in the same sentence.
Changing toolbars to text-only is pretty bad. The button hotboxes are tiny
Generally I think the toolbar settings needed more testing, they can be wonky (e.g. in Automator for text+icon it causes the traffic lights to misalign, in Safari toggling the sidebar on and off is janky).
Much the same on Linux with Wayland.
I haven't touched Windows for over a decade, does it still have a decent story for disabilities? They've certainly regressed in other areas ...
Comment was deleted :(
You can turn off the transparency in the accessibility settings. Sure products could be 100% accessible out of the box but unless you had some sort of limit on that it would likely make the experience worse for the majority of users. I can’t imagine Helvetica Neue Extra Light was particularly accessible as the system font a decade ago - but there were accessibility settings.
This is what happens when designers are treated as royalty and are told that their new "clothes" are "awesome" all the time.
It's also a symptom of consumption addiction where there is demand/motivation for drastic, superficial changes that don't really offer any value except to those who are consumed by the need for constant change for change's sake.
Apple used to care more about disabled people because of how the Accessibility APIs worked and were required for most apps.
Can anyone speak to whether the performance of the Settings app has been improved? In Seq and every version since they redid it in presumably SwiftUI, if you select one of the navigation panes and then hold either the up or down arrow keys to quickly navigate between them, something like a memory leak occurs due to (seemingly) launching all of the nested panes as separate apps (this is what appears to be the case in activity monitor) and the Settings app will start lagging until you fully quit and reopen.
No, it's worse. Basically it's the same experience but with an uglier UI
The search textbox overlaps with text which scrolls underneath.
The search box did not work for a few minutes after updating, but I assume that was a temporary indexing bug.
I'm normally on about 1 year delay on upgrading macOS for a multitude of reasons. I might not wait the full year but something else will have to force me to upgrade within the first few months.
I'd heard from people who were running the betas that it's not ready and they are surprised Tahoe wasn't delayed.
No way I'm upgrading any time soon to Apple's least cared for OS with a change this big (and this untested).
I'll be honest, I hear this every single time. But I've never delayed upgrading, and I've never regretted it. That's not to say every upgrade has been a strict improvement, but going back to my first Mac at 10.4 (Tiger) I've never wished I had stayed on an older version. We'll see how I feel after going to Tahoe, maybe this will be the one that breaks the trend.
Windows, on the other hand…
You always have to be moving forward and I'll never say "I'll just stay on Sequoia for forever" but delaying a bit does make life easier. I know I'll eventually upgrade but being there day 1 or even month 1 is not something I'm interested in. There are never new features that outweigh sending my development workflows into disarray or dealing with broken apps.
There aren't always huge issues or huge time sinks but I'm happy to let other people be on the bleeding edge and I'll upgrade once the Github issues, blog posts, etc have been created/fixed so that when I upgrade I can easily find solutions to any remaining issues I might run into. Especially with Tahoe, I've heard that some apps are just broken, period, unless the developer makes (sometimes significant) changes to get the same functionality working again (that was working fine in Sequoia).
> But I've never delayed upgrading, and I've never regretted it.
I was the same way for until one of the upgrades, I forget which, broke resume from suspend about 10-20% of the time for my combination of laptop and monitor. Every morning I’d get a sense of dread when I tried to open the laptop to see if today was a day where I’d get to pick up where I left off or if I was in for a crash and reboot as soon as I tried to use the laptop.
I thought for sure it would be fixed with one of the point updates, but it went on for the better part of a year.
You obviously haven't had firewall issues with EDR software a couple years ago or so.
I won't ever touch a .0 macos release again.
That’s from the old lore and I’m surprised so many have forgotten it. I learned that back when we had to buy upgrades on physical media, .0 is .no.
I don't wait a full _year_, but I definitly give it many months before upgrading. This one I might wait longer...
Any actual interesting changes under the hood other than UI changes? I cant remember the last time macOS release that actually brings any useful feature I use.
It's been so long since Apple has released anything in either iOS or macOS that excited me as a user. I don't seem to be their target customer anymore.
The only reason I even have to "upgrade" to a higher version number is how quickly app developers (including Apple themselves) drop support for older OS's. My iPhone which is stuck on iOS 15 runs just as well as the day I bought it, but every other app I download tells me (in essence) "LOL your phone is too old and our developers are too lazy to keep our software running on it. Upgrade your OS or get lost loser".
That's literally the only thing motivating me to upgrade anymore: The treadmill of software compatibility. Apple doesn't have to innovate--they just need to make sure the ecosystem is broken after ~5-10 years or so.
Isn't that true for pretty much every OS? The feature set we need to be able to do our jobs and computing hobbies have been available for two decades.
Operating systems like Debian is sufficiently boring that I can just upgrade and continue computing. macOS upgrades have become a small gamble, the stuff that I depend on may not continue to work, or at least it will take a good deal of work. There are however no reason to upgrade, so the risk isn't really worth the hassle of upgrading and breaking Java or Python.
Microsoft still manages to do 'cool stuff' at the kernel level; IO Rings, VBS, Rust, etc.
Only thing I see on the Apple' what's new that looks interesting is Metal updates. Most of the rest is UI.
You can still get software that installs and works perfectly on Windows 7 (released 16 years ago). Good luck finding software that even installs on Snow Leopard (released 16 years ago), let alone works well.
The flip side of this is that every attempt at advancing the Windows UI framework story beyond win32/MFC and WPF has failed and the platform itself is steeped neck deep in technical debt.
Snow leopard is a unix based os. There is a ton of software that can still install on it and work fine.
Sometimes it’s Apple and Google that are forcing developers. The system is perfectly capable of running the app (you’re not using any new API) but store policies force you to add the restriction anyway.
Yeah we are in this situation right now with an App, we literally can't update it unless we target a more modern version of the SDK, which introduces breaking changes
This problem could be mitigated by Apple making older versions of software available. Then you could continue to release updates, and users on older devices could continue to use earlier versions of your app on their devices.
Apple actually partially solves this: as a user, if I have EVER downloaded Older Version X of an app, and then go to download it again, they let me. However, if I have never downloaded the old version and go to download it, they just say “this app is not compatible with your device.” and don't give me the chance to get the older, compatible version. I don’t know why they make this distinction.
Worse are the third party apps where the old version still actually runs, but the developer deliberately blocks you with a full-screen “go away” dialog (I’m looking at you, FlightAware).
I got my first MacBook at Catalina, and still miss it. For a while, I downgraded my Intel Mac to Catalina again; I love the aesthetic compared to the newer releases, and it’s fast and snappy.
But the situation now is: No recent apps work on Catalina since it’s considered obsolete (except open-source apps you compile yourself). But Big Sur and higher are ridiculously slow on Intel hardware, to the point where it’s unusable. I now have an otherwise perfectly good 2019 Intel MacBook that has been gathering dust for the past years.
I’ve got a MacBook and Mac Mini stuck on Monterey (12), and an iMac stuck on Big Sur (11). I’m pretty much dead in the water when it comes to software compatibility, unless I want to put Linux on them. Even homebrew gives me a warning that they’ve stopped support and to expect everything to break. It’s a sad state of affairs.
This[1] worked well to upgrade old Macs that were stuck on old versions of macOS for me, if you're not choosing to stay on older versions for other reasons.
Linux runs fine on my wife’s old (2013) MacBook. It’s more than fine, actually. I have Arch and Niri on there, and it makes a great SNES emulator.
Support rapidly being dropped happens mostly with smaller devs, because when resources are limited in the Apple platform world you can either adopt newer APIs and language features or you can support old OSes 3+ versions back. Trying to do both lands you in feature check conditional hell and requires a large matrix of test devices to ensure that nothing is being broken.
It’s less of a burden for corporate giants which is why you see much longer support timelines from e.g. Google.
Comment was deleted :(
When was the next Windows or Linux (distro) release that "excited" you?
It's all slow incremental updates pretty much.
Not Linux, but I still look forward to window managers and Neovim releases. The Cosmic desktop also looks promising, though I’m not using it until it has a scrolling window manager available for it.
But yeah, I agree with you.
Spotlight got a major upgrade. It’s notably faster and deeply integrates with Shortcuts (letting you specify input variables, for example) among other things.
I’ve got Spotlight configured to index nothing but my applications (which is surprisingly difficult to configure and breaks with every major OS upgrade). Disabling all its default indexing has alleviated 95% of unexplainable CPU spikes and autocomplete pollution, so now I can finally use it for what it’s meant to be: the most overengineered fuzzy finder application launcher.
I actually preferred the pre-tahoe spotlight. The information density was higher and while it did not always give me the most relevant result atleast it was consistent and I could scroll down to find it. New spotlight is less dense and jumbles everything together.
Even more importantly: there's a clipboard manager built into it now.
I'm curious if it will get me to stop using Alfred
Alfred leverages the spotlight indexes, so Alfred will also get the speed up
Does "BetterDiscord" still show up as the first choice after you type "Disc"?
What’s wrong about this?
Anyone using Raycast has had these features forever. Nice to see some attention on Spotlight but it's still nowhere close to the functionality you get from Raycast.
I've been using Raycast for a couple months but I'm hoping I can uninstall it if Spotlight is responsive enough in Tahoe. What bothers me about Raycast is the monthly subscription for certain features. I don't mind paying for Mac software – I'm quite happy to do that – but I do mind paying monthly subscriptions for Mac software with seemingly no justification for it (i.e. what monthly resources does running a "window command" use on Raycast that justifies locking it behind a monthly subscription?)
What's the window command? I'm able to use things like "Top Left Sixth" on the free plain. AFAIK you only the pro for the AI features.
I thought Pro was only for AI features as well (that's what it said when I installed Raycast), but this dialog is saying Pro is required for custom window layouts as well. I only discovered this today when I was trying to create a new command to paste the screenshot from my clipboard into Preview for OCR.
I wrote my own window management with Hammerspoon, mostly duplicating what Rectangle et al do, but with specific tweaks just for me.
The most useful feature is the fact it uses my display layout + wifi name to figure out where I am and adjusts window locations accordingly.
Raycast is interesting but I’m not going to touch it so long as VC funding is involved. Alfred has been doing the job well enough, only requires me to buy a new version a couple times per decade, and isn’t going to become enshittified because there’s no VCs to come knocking looking for a profit.
+1 for Alfred. I'm a proud Power Pack / lifetime-license holder from the beginning. Very few outfits anymore have the chops to both offer and make good on a single-payment, long-lasting product with frequent and excellent substantive updates.
Mad props and three cheers for the Alfred team!
It’s insanely tiny and efficient for what it does, too. One of the only apps that’s so small that updates are done downloading within a second or two of clicking “Download”, even on a mediocre connection!
Sure and QuickSilver had it even earlier. But it is nice that one can finally extend Spotlight with Services ehm I mean Shortcuts.
Can it find my files now?
At a minimum, it can not find them faster!
The fact that so much of the page is devoted to this liquid glass feature pretty much tells you the answer is no. Plus the fact that the "And so much more" section lists 10 different updates in the same space as their poster with a link to a PDF instead of building out a larger webpage speaks volumes.
Native container support is pretty exciting.
ICYMI: Apple's new native containers start in ~100ms and have better security. I updated to Tahoe just for this.
And it's open-source:
https://github.com/apple/container
It's not really supported before Tahoe, presumably due to required hypervisor support.
Interesting to see this utilizes kata-containers project alongside virtualization.framework. Cool project.
Linux containers, not Darwin containers.
Does this mean I can dump Docker Desktop for good?
- Apple Sparse Image Format allows you to create virtualized disk images with a virtualized file format that can be formatted to any kind of file
- Terminal.app now supports 24-bit color and powerline glyphs
- Vehicle Motion Cues to reduce motion-sickness when in a moving vehicle
Good catch on the terminal. I missed that, and it might get me off Ghostty (I prefer to have less apps installed in general).
The on-device foundation models framework is interesting to me. So far the responses have not been good but the potential is appealing.
TextEdit has a styling toolbar now which I appreciate. The new spotlight has more functionality and seems faster (and less likely to pull up a website instead of the app I'm trying to launch)
I was in Beta since Beta 2, and I saw massive improvement in energy efficiency on my MacBook Air M2 and Pro Max M4
Aside from the Liquid Glass stuff, has anyone detailed the changes to the Unix bits of the OS? What's new, deprecated, moved, locked-down, etc. ... ?
Maybe it's new and controversial, but I like it. Honestly, I think there is something more about it. Like another Apple product that we're going to see in the future, like Apple glasses would work perfectly with this UI.
I've been using it for ~6 weeks, and I'm also a bit confused by the hate since it's barely changed. I'm a fan of the improved UX harmonization across form factors. My intuition is that the minor and gradual "Duploization" of macOS in Sequoia and now Tahoe foreshadows touchscreen MacBooks.
I agree with you. It really hasn't changed all that much. It's a bit more cartooney, but as long as it doesn't get in the way of my work, I don't care.
It looks like a lot of the hate flowing on HN is just people looking at worst-case screenshots on blogs and piling on. They haven't even used it.
There are a few things I'm not wild about, but for the most part it's a bunch of shoulder-shrugs. This isn't the end-of-the-world scenario that people are making it out to be.
I have a regular non-techie person in the family with a Mac who I think will like the changes. Those are the people who Apple is targeting. Not the tech bros and the wannabe posers who are desperately clutching their 10-year-old iPhones out of some kind of righteous indignation.
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It always seemed quite cringe to me. A use it once and "Ehh I guess it works and is cool, sure" and then never touch it again sort of feature.
Other than old people that always send gifs on Facebook and children who this is probably one of the only AI art things they have access too, idk who else uses this.
If one tech giant has it then they need to too for feature parity. Not a whole lot of use cases for generative AI for the masses, so if someone comes up with one, gotta copy!
Agreed.
Writing this comment from my FrameWork laptop with AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370, 96GB Ram, 4TB Storage, that I got for $4k. Running Fedora with KDE. How much would I need to pay Apple to get a laptop with this much ram?
The day I got my only Apple device, an ipad, only to know they will kill my browser download as soon as I switch to a different app, it became my last. I don't want to pay a company only to be subject to their decision of what I can and cannot run on my machine.
If I vote for that with my wallet, I deserve it.
You can get a 128GB MacBook for around $4300. With a 4TB SSD it'll be around $5k I think.
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/G1FW7LL/A/Refurbished-16-...
What an ugly UI update. I usually don't mind too much about the changes in MacOS UI and visuals, but opening up Finder leaves me shocked that this actually got the green light. Who in their right mind looked at this and thought: "yep that's the future, it looks fantastic!".
For Finder I discovered that changing the Toolbar to Icon Only significantly improved it. Then I set the sidebar icons to small in the Appearance system setting. That helped a lot.
Most of the new UI is designed almost exclusively for icon only toolbars.
I've run every version of macOS since Mac OS X Public Beta. I'm pretty sure I'm going to skip Tahoe. macOS 15 Sequoia is great; why would I switch to something profoundly ugly and unpolished if everything will keep running on my current OS and Apple's liable to make macOS 27 look tolerable?
If Apple stopped at the over-saturated/rounded-corners, it would have been a decent iteration on something established (and very much not broken). I realise the transparent icons are optional - but it now looks like a budget Android theme.
The new UI is horrible. That’s it. No need to deep analysis.
I really dislike how everything MUST become rounded to be "more user-friendly and fluid". The UI looks awful and I will probably never be upgrading.
Apple had a chance to bring back taste when they got rid of Ive, but missed it entirely. The overly rounded windows, the weird amount of blank space, the lack of clarity in general — the only thing that makes sense is that middle managers brought this about.
edit: Things are even worse — they already made newer apps much more difficult to read, likely because they have been brought from mobile to desktop. Now fonts are even smaller in System Settings, for example. What are they even thinking?
> Now fonts are even smaller in System Settings, for example. What are they even thinking?
It's worse on the iPad. They apparently think an iPad is now also a mouse and cursor device because they made touch targets so small, and the fonts in menus shrunk down making them more difficult touch targets as well.
I still hurting from the crappy System Settings. Please Apple, make System Settings better... It's a mess
I'm not quite sure what to make of Liquid Glass, I developed an allergy of sorts to the term while listening to the keynote. Any 'relevant' new features for power users / cmd line geeks that you know of?
https://github.com/apple/container is supported from macOS 26
The changes to Spotlight are fairly power-user focused. There's a lot of enhancements to make it quicker to set up shortcuts within it, and they've added a clipboard manager feature to it.
This summary looks acceptable: https://www.computerworld.com/article/4041433/spotlight-is-m...
Not a direct response to your question but (I guess like you) I often find with these releases that the changes I actually care about aren’t flashy enough to even warrant a mention in the presentations or on the main web page.
There seems to be some expansion of screen time, finally, but I haven’t been able to figure out what it is yet based on the only *os 26 update I’ve done so far is the public beta on a single Apple TV.
I think we'll have to wait for benchmarks to see if this is a leopard or a snow leopard
Open up the Calendar app on macOS Tahoe. Look in the upper right at the time zone selector. It is left justified to a fault, leaving a very awkward amount of space between it and the expand arrow/flyout arrows.
That looks so bad :D
A small but important detail of Aqua was that the assumed light source was pointing straight down, whereas everybody else was usually using a 45 degrees angle. I wish Apple took a lesson from the old masters.
Also these colors make my eyes bleed. And the border radius is ridiculous.
It’s butt-ugly, but I find the usability better. Previously everything was so white that I found it difficult on occasion to distinguish between windows above and below. The heavier drop shadows and rounded corners are actually quite helpful
they need to bring Scott Forstall or someone Bertrand Serlet-esque back, and a designer who isn't Alan Dye
For a more granular features list: https://www.apple.com/os/pdf/All_New_Features_macOS_Tahoe_Se...
Does anyone know what Qt 5 or Qt 6 applications look like on macOS Tahoe?
OpenSCAD and others look like they did even before Sequoia, with a small corner radius and older control spacing.
It looks like you can make your Qt app look like it did for previous OSes:
https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-on-macos-26-tahoe
That might be a useful stop gap.
The pixel above the menu bar Weather widget isn't clickable. Sound, wifi, battery, Control Center, clock are just fine.
Let that one get under your skin.
Sure, sure... The UI is a waste.
But: 24-bit color support in Terminal.app!
Finally.
(Next year, macOS Ukiah will use Apple Intelligence: just describe the UI you want in Spotlight, and macOS will vibe-code it up for you.)
First rule of MacOS upgrade: don't. Second rule: wait for x.1 or x.2 releases, so it's more stable and most importantly, the dependencies you need get updated.
i really wish they didn't give up on stage manager. every beta i would look if they fixed the opening behavior to open a new application in the same stage :/ but stage manager seems like it would have potential to fix window management on the mac without needing rectangle, yabai, alt tab etc
First macOS version I’m holding off on. Just too unusable.
Just upgraded my wife’s laptop and my iPhone. It’s fine. I think her use (she lives in the browser) and my iPhone use (calls, camera, browser) don’t really reveal anything terrible. It’s kind of a dumb gimmick, but it’s mostly fine so far. It would annoy me if a UI that I frequently used “upgraded” to this, though.
I think I’m going to stick with the previous version of macOS on my work laptop until I’m forced to upgrade.
I'm baffled by the hate. So far, it's just some nice looking cosmetic changes.
All entirely inconsequential -- I've seen nothing yet that will affect my workflows in any way.
This is unrelated, but in Indonesian language, "Tahoe" is a word for tofu but spelled the old way
The GUI of an OS has never concerned me. Seems like a red flag when the main selling point is a slight bit of transparency.
Well, that's why there is a lot of complaints.
The main selling point of a macbook is not a UI with transparency. It's hardware stuff (like ARM processors, battery life, aluminum frames, etc..) and a decent, stable, unix-ish software environment. No one is using macOS for the visual effects, so it is annoying that Apple is revamping the UI everyone is used to in order to add more visual effects.
Seems nuts to me, but I'll be curious to see how this all pans out.
I've grown so used to Apple shipping buggy software that I wait a year or more before upgrading my mac to a major version. I do all the minor releases and security patches, of course.
The part that I am so tired of is the ‘we are the best at this and this is amazing’ pitch that comes with every release. Never mind that this release’s design ‘language’ DIRECTLY conflicts with things they used to say ‘never do that’.
So what changed exactly? Change is understandable but this is a full 180. - floating anything was verboten - accessibility was paramount - clarity was prioritized
How did this release come about??
New people in design roles that no longer care about old rules.
Declining institutional taste and no one at the helm who appreciates or enforces old rules when necessary.
Has anyone gotten this running in with QEMU and kvm?
This is the first time I've ever seen a macOS update and not seen a single feature worth bothering to upgrade over. Is there anything developer-facing? I don't use any Apple ecosystem stuff and this is all that AFAICT
A reminder, if you dislike the liquid glass look, that going into System settings / Accessibility / Display and toggling “Increase contrast” gets you a properly nice design with actual borders and solid backgrounds. 100% recommended.
I initially tried that and thought it improved some things, but it increased contrast across the OS, such that some webpages, including stock HN became too blinding. I instead switched to "Reduce Transparency," but that has its own issues.
Overall not pleased. I really did not want to care about the UI changes at all. But having experienced it now, I'm so annoyed I upgraded to iOS 26 and I'm having trouble focusing on the screen. I want WebGPU support, but I'm very hesitant to upgrade to macOS 26 (which is required for WebGPU in Safari).
This settings turns reduce transparency and it turns makes the menu bar gray, which looks horrible on a display on notch.
Is there any way to make it black? Like it appears on full screen applications? (apart from enabling the transparency together with a black wallpaper)
Currently even on dark mode it doesn't have a black background while reduce transparency is toggled on.
We're all disabled now. Thanks, Apple.
Weirdly, I had that enabled pre-Tahoe and have had to turn it off as it was even worse with it on for me.
Everyone’s different I guess :)
Back on Sequoia, but this is great advice, thank you!
I had thought Tahoe was the first version to drop Intel CPU support, but it looks like it will be the last version to still support Intel Macs.
Two of the latest Intel MacBooks, and the last Intel iMac, so technically, yes, there’s still some Intel support in there. My 2019 iMac is one version too old.
does not support 2018 Mac mini
Apple have always seemed to drop support for hardware after 5-7 years, and then it's just a question of the last supported OS becoming itself unsupported too. My early 2015 Macbook Pro (new in April 2015) got as far as macOS Monterey (released October 2021) - and they stopped updating that in October 2024.
(I'm not digging through Wikipedia to double check but my previous 2 Macbooks Pro felt like they lasted about as long.)
It'll be interesting to see if they change this with the (presumably cleaner slate) Apple Silicon-based hardware.
I feel like Joey Tribbiani with Rachel’s Traditional English Trifle, because I like it. iOS, macOS, ipadOS, tvOS.
I like the new feature in tvOS to see incoming calls on the tv.
I'm on the beta right now and a "<<" icon has appeared.
It's embarrassing that it took them that long but they have in fact fixed it.
Widget appearance is tied to *icon appearance. Grumble grumble. I want clear for my widgets but default for my dock and other icons. Too bad so sad me I guess.
edit: replaced dock with icon, because it affects much more than just dock
Looks like they're putting an AR UI in a Desktop
The key question - now that Liquid Glass is a reality, will Tim Cook lose his job like Ballmer did over Windows 8 metro design?
It's not as bad as the first previews but ugly nonetheless and overall accessibility nightmare.
All I hope is that the design language stays contained in Apple ecosystem and does not spread.
Accessibility hasn't changed at all, and it remains trivial to turn off visual effects that present a problem. https://imgur.com/a/Vw55f8V
It's like every macos release. The internet rushes to upgrade to it and then tries to be the first to sh*t on it. Nothing to see here. Winning.
Anytime a UI redesign comes with bullshit abstract designer justifications ("a translucent new material that reflects and refracts its surroundings", etc) you know it's bad.
Is that call screening example a new feature or something I can do now that I didn't know about? That's something I've missed since switching from a Pixel to an iPhone last year.
That's new in the 26 OSes.
This is the Windows 7 version of MacOS
are they giving any hints that in high vis/accessibility modes this will be fully disabled? I've been largely insulated from changes like this for a while by that, if that were to change however, more drastic measures may be needed
I usually wait a couple weeks for the bugs to be worked out before installing.
Windows XP had Theme Settings. I never used them, but at least they allowed you to choose.
The juxtaposition in the marketing speak is ridiculous.
"...all with a whole lot less effort."
Seriously Apple, a whole lot less?
I hate to say it, but Windows is much more productive than MacOS for the usually tasks you perform on an OS (with GUI, both have CLIs, but I'm not talking about them). I'm using both at work all day long switching between them. When reflecting why, I think it comes down to windows management and the file explorer (vs finder).
That’s an entirely subjective thing, though. I’ve used Macs more than PCs and I can’t stand what feels to me like Windows’s abysmal window management.
I don’t say that to argue that macOS is better at it, just that I strongly prefer the Mac way as much as you prefer the way Windows does things, and that’s perfectly fine.
I disagree on this.
I’ve used both interchangeably for decades and can swap between them without slowing. So much of this comes down to knowledge of and experiences with the quick/er ways for getting around.
For quite sometime using search tools is vastly more efficient for navigation and file movement than Explorer or Finder anyway.
This looks like their Windows Vista.
Reminder that if you have an old Mac, and you'd like to run more recent versions of macOS on it, you can do so with Dortania OpenCore (https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/).
They don't have Tahoe support yet, but almost certainly will in the coming months.
I highly recommend doing this instead of throwing away a 5 or 6 year old computer as ewaste!
(Windows and Linux also work on Intel Macs.)
I'm so bummed that the workarounds to keep a 5k iMac in commission all seem to be really likely to piss off your corporate IT department.
Patching the bootloader in memory seems like a big op-sec no-no.
Last time this came up on Hacker News, someone pointed out that there are new display boards you can buy from China to reuse a 5K's panel as an external display.
I think we're only allowed to run Linux at work on blessed devices. Last I looked, the 5K panel in the iMac was actually presented to the firmware as two smaller displays, which were glued back together in software. Apple does that magic to support its own hardware, but it sounded like Linux doesn't.
Thank you so much. I only need a Mac to compile/debug with Xcode (still can't get USB pass through with quickemu working) but Apple has been killing old versions such that projects wont build and home brew has no bottles and whatnot.
Tim Cook has no taste
Looks horrible on non-hdpi monitors
Apple straight up doesn't give a fuck about us third-party monitor users. Timmy says 1440p at 27" is big enough for anyone.
Just a joke of a company
They openly fucked DP 1.4 to make the ProDisplay XDR work.
Catalina, sure, you can drive a DP 1.4 monitor at 144Hz in HDR10. Big Sur, coinciding with the ProDisplay...? No, that will get you 60Hz HDR10 or 95Hz SDR.
So stupidly that downgrading my monitor (mine would allow you to select advertised support) to DP 1.2 would increase your refresh and HDR options.
And it was never fixed, not in Big Sur, Monterey or Ventura, when I had switched monitors.
People were wondering how Apple made the math work. Simple, by "Fuck you if your monitor isn't our $6,000 flagship".
Eh, it has always looked horrible. Non fractional scaling is just too much to ask at this point...but hey look at this tiny toggle element doing this cool liquidy effect wohoo
They didn't even fix the horizontal resizing in the Settings app.
Sigh.
I still need to use the Scroll Reverser because the scroll direction (aka natural scrolling) can only be turned on or off globally, not per pointing device. I love natural scrolling on the trackpad, but it doesn't make sense on the mouse scroll wheel.
I use a Shortcut for this because it cuts down on the unnecessary apps. Hammerspoon.app would work too though.
tell application "System Settings"
activate
end tell
delay 0.1
tell application "System Events"
tell process "System Settings"
click menu item "Trackpad" of menu "View" of menu bar 1
delay 0.25
click radio button 2 of tab group 1 of group 1 of group 2 of splitter group 1 of group 1 of window 1
click checkbox "Natural scrolling" of group 1 of scroll area 1 of group 1 of group 2 of splitter group 1 of group 1 of window 1
tell application "System Settings" to quit
end tell
end tellHow has Apple still not addressed many basic UI issues, such as menu bar icons disappearing behind the notch with no way to see them?
I take it as a sign of typical increasing corporate dysfunction. Obvious problems, some even easy and uncontroversial, don't get fixed. Why?
The people who can fix them are not in control. The org must be very top-down. But Steve Jobs had a top down style, so what's the difference? Its: Using and caring about the product.
It's top down direction with the people at the top not using/caring about the product. Presumably they're concerned with other things like efficiency, stocks, clout.
Also if you had a majorly obvious bug, you could email steve@apple.com, which he would forward to a VP, who would be fired if it wasn't fixed ASAP. Knew a guy who lost his job that way, so it's not just a myth. Steve really was like that.
The wrath of Steve was a real thing that people feared.
I remember reading that he would roam the cubicles in the 80s when he came by some engineer who hadn't slept for 72 hours and who had been working on a difficult problem.
Steve didn't like his work and yelled "This is shit!" and then proceeded to pull the plug on his computer deleting all the work.
Classic Steve Jobs.
Today we have a soy boy CEO and the result shows in the product.
"The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste." — Steve Jobs
Oh, how the mighty have fallen…
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Menu extras were never intended to be treated like Windows tray items. For the earlier portion of OS X’s life, there wasn’t even a public API to create them and required a hack and a private API, and the current API is intended for ephemeral menu extras that disappear when their host app isn’t running. In short, the menubar isn’t designed for users to collect menu extras like Pokémon.
But that’s exactly how it is used, and them disappearing behind the notch feels like a bug.
Sure, but for twenty years that’s not how they’ve been used.
In case you don't know, at least there's a setting to help:
defaults -currentHost write -globalDomain NSStatusItemSpacing -int 8I have collected a long list of these types of settings over the years, for example disable font smoothing:
defaults -currentHost write -g AppleFontSmoothing -int 0
Eventually that will be gone too, and none will be the wiser except the old who remember the good old days.
I'm starting to think these settings are left there by rogue engineers who fight against the oppression while staying under the radar. It's like a secret cabal that works to maintain sanity while the plebs are left to suffer at the mercy of their own ignorance.
And the apps that provide solutions for it, like Bartender, need screen reading permissions which I just can't bring myself to grant.
If you really want to use such a thing, switch to Ice. It’s an open source thing similar to Bartender, before BT was bought by a shifty outfit. It still requires those permissions, but at least you can look at the code. I have a paid Bartender license. I liked it enough to pay for it, but don’t like the road it went down and stopped using it.
Tahoe lets you selectively remove app icons from the menu bar. I’m going to try that for a while and see if I can tolerate not using Ice anymore.
I think they kinda did? I'm not sure where to look for a link to this info, but I remember watching a YouTube video showing the ability to group and hide menu bar icons in Tahoe so they take up less space (and therefore encroach less toward the notch).
Maybe I'm misremembering the video though.
(edit) The linked page seems to hint at it:
> Personalized controls and menu bar. Your display feels even larger with the transparent menu bar. And you have more ways to customize the controls and layout in the menu bar and Control Center, even those from third parties
I love my Mac and yes, this is easily the most absurd problem. It happens to me all the time and I can’t believe they haven’t fixed it.
Apple…if you’re listening…please fix this.
Notice how on the menu bar, when you click File and then the dropdown appears, you can move the mouse arrow to the right (without clicking) over Edit and now the Edit menu shows up. But the same doesn't work on the status menu icons, if I click on the volume icon and move the mouse, nothing happens, the volume menu stays open, even if hover over the battery indicator. So many little things like this that never worked consistently.
They need to bring back the control strip!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_Strip
Solves this exact issue.
It was great, but they had to quietly retire it when somebody pointed out it looked like a dick.
Apparently it's not important.
Screenshots of this OS sure are...something. I'm gonna hold off on upgrading. Maybe they'll tone it down next year.
Looks like a niche Gnome theme that’s trying to clone a MacOS look.
I don’t think it’s that bad, nothing to get upset over - but yeah sort of like candy iMac aesthetic.
A lot of the focus here is on the design (obviously). It took me a while to get used to it. But there are a lot of really great improvements in this release that make it worth it. Spotlight gets big updates. Live activities and notifications syncing from your phone. Journal. Music app has been massively updated and redesigned. Phone app. And surprisingly it doesn’t feel like a launch release - definitely less buggy than previous efforts.
Is there anywhere to find a comprehensive list of updates made "Under the hood"? Sure the new UI is cool and all, but what are they doing to make the OS better? In a previous life I was a mac administrator and every update, apple would remove some binary and suddenly we couldn't natively make calls to LDAP or something.
That’s why I miss the old Ars Technica reviews.
The closest I’ve seen is this Apple PDF and I’m not sure it’s what you’re after: https://www.apple.com/os/pdf/All_New_Features_macOS_Tahoe_Se...
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This seems like a relatively minor update.
This is the last ever version with Intel support, right? That's a milestone of sorts.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my 2020 iMac in a year. I really want to be able to repurpose that 5k screen but Apple does not make it easy.
I might just leave it in perma-Windows Boot Camp.
If you're up for a project, you can swap the guts of those 5K iMacs for an aftermarket controller board which turns it into a regular monitor. It's a bit janky but a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new 5K monitor.
I mean the obvious other choice would be Linux. Wayland is pretty good with hidensity screens nowdays.
Which is a bit sad. There were some choices that didn’t pan out in the last Intel era (butterfly, touchbar), but part of me loved those changes (the keyboard and the touchbar felt super premium, until you tried to work with them for any amount of time).
Am I the only one here who thinks liquid glass is pretty? I like it.
More than that, I love the new Spotlight features, and the ability to remove apps from the menu bar without installing Ice (or the legacy Bartender).
Okay that seems pretty nice. A lot of small improvements to day-to-day use. This is what I want from a desktop OS update.
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I wish Apple would skip yearly macOS releases, there is no need.
Ios26 isn’t bad. Installing it on my non work MacBook.
I love how when apple could offer nothing more, their ui became nothing, and a celebration of blankness
I really hope spotlight didn't just get ruined
"ruined"?
It hasn't been able to find anything in years.
It's faster to scroll down in Finder than use the search box to locate anything =)
I mean it’s gotten bad already, but I think people’s hope is that they fixed it that if I type in a file name I work with all the time it’ll be the first result. At least that’s what I’m hoping for.
that and some kind of weighted memory for search history. i use photoshop almost daily, photos once a month or so, and photo booth once a year, but they appear in reverse order based on alphabetization.
I, for one, am going to wait a much longer while before installing this.
The internets suggests the following disables glass effects:
defaults write com.apple.universalaccess reduceTransparency 1Disappointed with the background image. I was expecting a similar treatment like with Sequoia and previous versions with a beautiful and inspiring scene in nature. Instead it is vaguely inspired by water?
The Tahoe beach pictures are pretty nice.
https://mrmacintosh.com/download-the-new-macos-tahoe-wallpap... has them at the bottom of the link
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Is there alternative backgrounds included? Often there are two or three.
There are four alternative Tahoe backgrounds/screensavers in Landscape. They're the same shot of the lake at different times of day.
To help highlight the new "Liquid Glass" UI?
Or because Tahoe is a lake?
Both?
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https://www.apple.com/v/os/c/images/macos/highlights/mac_pho...
Two different fonts (Mac vs iOS) for the same data display?
And replacing all humans by AI avatars, to make it easier for spambots to impersonation people?
Running it already. Seems pretty solid. No compatibility issues. UI changes are fairly ok. Glad they got rid of launcher and merged it into spotlight.
Never used spotlight. I have it disabled permanently. I don’t like the indexing.
If you ever used Quicksilver, the new Spotlight feels a lot like it.
"Reimagined with Liquid Glass, macOS Tahoe is at once fresh and familiar. Apps bring more focus to your content. You can personalize your Mac like never before. And everything just flows into place."
what is this grammar
I think this is just 'sales writing'. As if written for a trailer video.
Apple used to be like... the standard for how to do this.
IMO we're losing a lot of writing craftsmanship across many industries with Gen X'ers retiring
It's Apple house style. Marketing writes in tiny sentences. Even fragments. Makes the copy more punchy. And it's been like this for decades.
Now imagine it being said by someone presenting and doing the same hand pyramid stance that they make every Apple employee in WWDC videos do.
All kidding aside, it’s weird to read. Ever since I was a kid, I was taught that beginning a sentence with “And” or “But” is not “correct”. Times change and all that, I get it - it’s just weird though.
The hand pyramid stance. Yes! I find it quite off putting. It feels overly choreographed and fake.
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Shwiggity shwagg, the GA release hath come!
Can't wait to write a beamline control application for crystallography on this sumbitch!
Have they got any further on their roadmap to only allowing apps from the Mac store in this release?
They will certainly be enough idiots who think that it is for the user's own good, so that apps are more "secure."
What evidence do you have that they are trying to do that?
All of the major commercial OS vendors are trying to do that. Apple started it with iOS. Google have gradually been tightening the net. Microsoft are furthest away but they have the longest legacy of freedom so they the furthest to go.
Obviously they aren't going to publicly say that's their intent, but you don't have to be a genius to read between the lines.
As for why... money and power are pretty big motivators.
Ok, so no?
I remember when there was option to run any application. With Sequoia there are only 2 options: App Store; App store + Known developers. Third option was removed. You can still run other apps but you need to manually approve them with ~3 popups where first option is "move to Bin". You need to do this after every OS or App update. I wonder when this option will be removed as well.
It's been missing since at least Big Sur, so if they're going to go any further they do seem to be taking their time over it.
This is tiresome. You cannot lock down development machines. If you pay attention you'll see that OSes made for development work will be the only ones not locked down. Android was a holdout but Google is now tightening the screws. MacOS, Linux, BSD, and Windows are the only OSes that can't be locked down. Microsoft tried but they abandoned that.
Good point, but it is entirely possible for Apple/Microsoft to lock down "consumer" versions of their operating systems, effectively turning the common man's computer into a glorified phone and a new cash cow. Add to that a requirement for an online account, age verification, and other malware.
Crafted by Rajat
Source Code