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Unobtanium supports more sources, has more features, and is actively developed.

https://obtainium.imranr.dev/

https://github.com/ImranR98/Obtainium

s/Unobtanium/Obtainium/g

Funny how everyone in this thread uses the wrong name, like a collective halluzination :D

Supports the dead internet theory

I've seen you type this exact phrase twice now and I'm not sure what it means.

https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/159367/using-sed-to...

The same syntax is also used in vim

It's roughly equivalent to:

  ^Unobtanium^Obtainium

  ^Unobt^Obt

`^Uno^O` is shorter ;)

Yeah, I usually add an extra character or two. Once bitten, twice shy. Though that usually only happens on really long one liners.

This is what I use, and it works well. It's very straightforward to add apps and automatically update them as new releases are pushed to Github or wherever they are hosted.

Cloudflare blocked my access from Safari ios

You know what I really want? No more "app stores" or "app managers". Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world.

I hate the constant updates. I hate the end-of-life OS forks. I hate the limited programming languages. I hate that there's this complicated gatekeeping, where you have to jump through a bunch of extra hoops to install a program if it hasn't been blessed by some specific official organization. And I hate that all the mobile phones come locked up (if not to a mobile carrier, then to an operating system, only able to be maintained by a specific 3rd party, and the device becomes a useless brick once that specific 3rd party stops supporting that specific operating system on that specific device).

Regular computers work much better. A common architecture. Run any OS built for that common architecture. Run any program that has executable machine code for that common architecture. You can install a different OS when the old one is unsupported. You can keep using the hardware until the hardware dies, not just until the company who made it drops that hardware's support. Common hardware components so every OS doesn't have to support every different individual model of computer. No gatekeeping of the programs you can install. No extra hoops. Just a machine that can run whatever you want it to.

I just want a computer in my pocket. I don't want all the extra bullshit.

  > "Just let me download and run an application"

You can download an ".apk" file and just install + run it, like an ".exe" or ".msi"

It is.

The belief that all mobile devices are this locked down is Apple's greatest trick.

I don't even think it is premeditated by the Company's leadership. But the users and ecosystem evolved in a way where this level of fandom and narrative are great for them.

Apple locks down their devices, gaming consoles are locked down, most IOT and home appliance devices are locked down: even "modular" devices like PCs (and their components) lock down their firmware and close-source their drivers. Heck, most of publicly-funded software is closed-source. Entire industries are based on software that's shitty and closed-source (see Adobe or Archicad). In each of these cases opening up the relevant systems or diverting license fees to investments into open alternatives would be a dramatic improvement to status quo, and not only for the geeks, but for the average person. But, we've not yet realised that; what we're currently doing is what makes most sense to us. Oh well.

You have to install the app. You can’t just run it directly, as opposed to executables on desktop computers.

That's because .apk's are essentially ZIP archives -- they contain assets required for the executable as well as a manifest declaring permissions.

That's a bit of a handwavy explanation, there's more to it than that, but that's the gist of why you can't "directly" run apps on Android.

The assets aren't extracted during installation though. The APK is copied as is, the executable files are extracted to a cache, but that can technically be done at runtime.

More important parts of the installation process is configuring the default permission set for the application, creating its linux user and it's data directories. (In Android every app runs under its own linux user, and by default only has access to a specific data directory created for that app, to access other directories you need broader filesystem permissions). But this could technically still be done at runtime.

The bigger problem requiring installation would be features where the OS needs to start the app up - notifications, or app's background processes. Although even there some kind of temporary installation at runtime could work...

And you kinda still can, in a terminal emulator, it just can't behave like an app since it won't integrate with the system UI.

How I wish that was the case! Ever since having moved from the US to the EU, I find myself having to go to Aurora Store more than 50% of the time, as A LOT of apps with country locality are not available in downloadable apk format, from any of the major apk distribution sites or - when rarely found - they are a few versions behind, and can't be run.

I agree... but also that computer in our pocket has our entire life wrapped in it.

The desktop has some mitigations against this. PWNing your mobile device could completely wreck you in a lot of ways.

I switched from android to iphone because someone 0-day'd me. I'm not saying it can't happen on iOS or something; just less likely - and mostly because of these restrictions.

Wait that? If someone burns 0-days against you, you have bigger problems and an iPhone won't save you.

Can OSes offer an application sandbox feature, where I can define sandboxes within which to install applications. Applications within a sandbox only has visibility into the resources I define: some folders, no camera or mic etc. I understand that app permissions do the same, but this would be more convenient than having to define granular permissions each time you install an app.

> Applications within a sandbox only has visibility into the resources I define

Isn't that more than a typical sandbox what you're asking for?

The GrapheneOS developers said they're working on a feature where every app could be run in its own VM, like on ChromeOS: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/20647

> some folders, no camera or mic etc. I understand that app permissions do the same

The "some folders" part is already true for Android. Apps can't blanket access files/folders of other apps (save for ones stored in "external storage", which has also been scoped down in the recent releases: https://source.android.com/docs/core/storage/scoped).

> more convenient than having to define granular permissions each time you install an app

It isn't Android that makes this inconvenient. It is the app developers that cause "prompt fatigue" (by showing permission requests repeatedly) or "blackmail" by refusing to work until permissions are granted. A new sandbox mechanism is unlikely to change much.

> It isn't Android that makes this inconvenient. It is the app developers that cause "prompt fatigue" (by showing permission requests repeatedly) or "blackmail" by refusing to work until permissions are granted. A new sandbox mechanism is unlikely to change much.

That's why spoofing should be an option. You want GPS? Timbuktu. You want my camera? Here's a close up video of a saggy scrotum. You need access to my contacts? Here's an address book with the contact details for all the funeral services within a 50 mile radius.

People keep talking about having been hacked, but it's honestly baffling to me.

I'm 28. I started using computers on a regular basis when I was ~9 years old, playing RuneScape. Since then, I've spend probably 10s of thousands of hours on the internet - downloading torrents, signing up for sketchy Russian websites, doing online banking, testing experimental software downloaded over HTTP from a .xyz domain. I graduated high school, went to a technical college for compsci, graduated, worked in helpdesk, desktop support, IT management, and more recently DevOps. I develop software using all sorts of package managers, and used hundreds of thousands of unvetted software packages that arrived as dependencies.

Not once have I, or anyone I've been responsible for, been hacked. No crypto, no viruses, nothing. What the heck are you guys doing getting your Android phones hacked???? Like I only use a modicum of common sense these days, but I guess I've just been lucky and have been the odd one out. I still enjoy reading HN arrivals about security though, so maybe I just have always been slightly more security conscience?

In any case, this is just a stream of consciousness / gut feeling comment. Don't put too much weight into it, I haven't.

The way in which getting hacked works these days is that you as the user will never know. They will just silently exfil your data, and also use you to get to others. You will be none the wiser.

If it's so secret that nobody will ever find out, then I'm okay with it.

On the other hand, it's true that some people find out their credit score is trash right before buying a house, or that their name is involved in terrorism when applying for a visa, etc.

You should not be okay with it because they will most definitely use it to exert power over you. They are not professors or space aliens that are doing it for academic curiosity. It can be the government that wants to lock up someone, either now or in the future, or anyone that wants to steal your hard-earned crypto. It is not okay. These days they will also pass it through their AI, and potentially also use it to tune their AI.

> If it's so secret that nobody will ever find out, then I'm okay with it.

The original argument was that one would never know.

One would never know until one loses their crypto, or one has the government hurting one's freedoms, possibly even using parallel reconstruction, or one gets blackmailed. If one doesn't know that their phone could've been hacked, one will be left wondering what happened.

Yep. With exception to apps that don’t interact with the internet in any way whatsoever (not even opening downloaded files), which is pretty rare, keeping up with library updates is pretty important if one doesn’t want to make them ever more of a sitting duck as time goes on.

>Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world.

You can do that. Pretty easily. Having to manually update software is pretty annoying though, so why not automate it?

App Stores have nothing to little to do with what you are complaining about.

As we are talking about Android:

- Play Store: makes sure developers don't do nefarious stuff with the user's data. Yes, for us power users some restrictions are simply wrong, I agree. Use an alternative store for that. But what it does well is optimizing performance: instead of 1 apk with 4 ABI supports (or 4 apk with 1 ABI support each), it can use app bundles to serve you only what your device needs. Also, the Play Store learns what parts of the app are commonly used and contributed this back to make performance improvements for all other users (I was amazed the first time I heard about this). - F-Droid, any other store: ensures your privacy/no-restriction/etc needs are covered.

What they all have in common: your app gets updates! Do you want bugs to be there forever? Do you want to go through 100 apps and manually install updates? Please, no one wants to do that. On your Unix machine you also don't manually check all updates using your package manager, and what changelog each has.

So just download the APK from github manually, then? That's all this app does anyway.

level down the actions you described to the intellect of the average smart phone user.

I'm not being sarcastic. the average smart phone user have been dumbed down by corporations so they don't even need to add technical walls to their walled garden, as to avoid regulation. if google don't prevent you from installing apks, they will never face the court decision apple just received. but users won't act in a way they lose their 30pct fee either.

They make normal computers that small now. You can buy one.

Did we all forget Bonzai Buddy?

That model doesn’t work for most people. Most people want the latest version at all times, and don’t want to have to sysadmin their phone.

I'm a Fedora guy through and through but...did Ubuntu Touch die on the vine? It seemed like it was approaching some approximation of this.

It's still around,but only supports a few devices. Last I looked, it didn't work with volte.

"You know what I really want? No more "app stores" or "app managers". Just let me download and run an application, like on every non-mobile computer in the world."

pretty sure you can do that, just use non android/ios mobile os

kali linux,ubuntu mobile os is up there, no one force you to use android/ios system

I <3 obtainium, i'm not sure what unobtanium is

you wouldn't get it

Hey all, I'm the developer of this app.

This was literally my first ever Flutter app and it honestly sucks.

I made it before I found out that Obtainium exists.

Even so, I'm glad I made it, because I learnt a lot while making it.

It is unlikely that it will be finished or even worked on any time soon.

What a bad name for such app, as it has nothing to do with the actual git.

I've noticed this on my org as well, people refer to "putting things in git" and 75% of the time they're referring to the source forge.

sorry, I don't use android, but how is this different from unobtainium?

Unobtanium supports more sources, for one.

s/Unobtanium/Obtainium/g

Unobtainium is horrible unreliable and clunky software. It's way worse than AUR and that's an under statement.

In what ways?

[dead]

Hasn't been updated for 2 years. Is it feature-complete?

I'd suggest Unobtanium. This doesn't look actively maintained.

What's the closest equivalent for windows PC?

Aka how to give anyone who can legally compel Microsoft RCE on your device.

We all put far too much faith in the github.com TLS cert.

Is that any different from compelling an F-Droid maintainer or Google Play?

Microsoft and Google do this sort of stuff for their government all of the time. I imagine the F-Droid people aren’t in the habit and would make noise about it.

But what about https://f-droid.org/en/ ? It do the same but have a nice gui =)

>It do the same

It literally doesn't. F-droid has its own repo format, whereas this app gets releases from github releases directly.

As also pointed out in a sibling thread, there's https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/ though, which is somebody's curated collection of apps with Github releases in the form of an F-Droid repository.

F-Droid

F-Droid requires a compatible repository; it doesn't work with GitHub releases.

should have used gitlab

or forgejo

I was thinking that one could "roll their own repository" that scrapes githubs and then just throw that into f-droid.

Probably already exists.

IzzyOnDroid is basically this already; it's a third-party repository that's maintained by some person that does updates.

man, i feel this big time - all i want is to just run what i want on my phone without all the locked down nonsense, feels like every device now is less mine than ever tbh. ever wonder who actually gains the most from all this locking down? is it just security or something else too?