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If you're in the market for a $1,900 color E Ink monitor, one of them exists now
by rbanffy
I'm sad all eInk monitor makers want to ship high refresh rates and other parameters to compete with classic displays, making them this expensive. I would rather buy a cheap 1 Hz monochrome eInk display (at least FullHD size and HDMI/DP-attached though) just to display text documents than a ridiculously expensive eInk to watch action videos on it (what a ridiculous aim, right tool for the job anybody?)
These ARE the same slow panels. The high refresh rates are basically done with compromises on quality during refresh. Large eInk panels are expensive. Just look at how much a 13" eInk device is vs. 10" or 7" or 6". This is a whole level over 13".
If you are going to use these on a computer at all you need some sort of high refresh mode. Things like scrolling and typing are just way too annoying without it.
I agree!!! I just need color syntaxing and basic stuff for reading. They are so focused on playing Youtube videos (even reviews focus on that). These devices are purchased by people that READ. We have ipads and other monitors for the other stuff. I think tech is filled with management that are detached from reality. It is like Elon alienating the base for Teslas... Red States DON'T buy EVs dude. What happened to common sense in tech... Just look at what your customer base wants THEN design the product. Don't focus on what the competition is doing.
Your comment seems too charged emotionally and politically (so I'm afraid people are going to downvote) but makes a lot of sense. That's so weird they focus on videos when eInk lovers mostly are readers and mostly own other devices to watch videos on.
It might be a fun project to create a UI for use with low refresh displays. Maybe have config options for super low refresh rates, color calibration for the new eink displays and adjust the scroll step size. No mouse pointer, just keyboard shortcuts.
I dream of such a lo-fi UI: no animations, no redundant elements, no individually different look&feel for every app - only the information you really need, displayed where and when it really makes sense, updated when necessary, formatted uniformly.
In fact there already are some projects of eInk-orientd OSes (e.g. MuditaOS). I don't know how good they really are though.
> If you are going to use these on a computer at all you need some sort of high refresh mode. Things like scrolling and typing are just way too annoying without it.
I hate scrolling and hardly ever scroll really - I just use multiple vertical displays to fit every page fully, only switching pages. Surely this whole discussion thread can't be fit in a screen but I'm perfectly comfortable "scrolling" it with PgDn.
I'm used to slow-response typing (waiting for seconds before a word I typed appears when using modern software on old PCs). In fact I don't even look at the screen when I type until I finish a sentence - despite typing fairly fast I have a habit of looking at the keyboard. I don't mean this is a right way to type yet it proves seeing characters displayed immediately is not essential.
I touch type too but the lag is very much there. Correcting a typo is difficult because unless you're perfectly counting key presses you don't know where the cursor is.
Sure, this can be an inconvenience when you type a lot and use a single-display setup. But I read way more and consider single-monitor work resemble running on crutches. This said I would probably put an eInk and a classic display alongside each other to display what I have to read on one side and what I have to edit next to it.
Messenger apps even have separate panes for displaying message threads and for editing the message you are going to submit - I could put these on separate displays (if the apps would allow moving panels around the way classic desktop apps did).
Why do you think that the high refresh rate is the main reason for the high price, instead of resolution or screen size?
This seems a reasonable assumption to me but I don't mean to insist I'm right.
Slow monochrome eInk panels have been around for 2 decades. Mostly built into pocket book readers, phones (like Motorola F3) and niche devices like supermarket price tags rather than computer monitors attachable with common connectors.
Okay, perhaps it's not the speed which makes them expensive, yet manufacturers and researchers mostly brag about making them faster (and more colorful) rather than making them more cheap (what I would prefer them to).
There's still the confounding variable of size and resolution (eg supermarket price tags).
or patents.
it seems like the company with e-ink patents might be like luxottica controlling the eyeglass market.
A text heavy application where update rate matters is programming. And I would be the target audience for that.
Also I would suspect the high refresh rate isn't the main cost driver here. You can simply refresh eink displays with different methods that offer different trade offs
> A text heavy application where update rate matters is programming. And I would be the target audience for that.
I wish you get what you want soon. Nevertheless I would prefer there to be a cheaper option for those who only need to read static documents or watch dashboards of information which doesn't change fast.
> You can simply refresh eink displays with different methods that offer different trade offs
Needless to say eInk displays aren't meant to refresh the same way classic displays do. Only the regions which actually change are supposed to redraw. 1 Hz doesn't mean the whole panel is fully reset 60 times every minute, only that it takes a second to display a change. Is this what you mean?
I'm not sure update rate is that important. Subsecond sure, but 33Hz seems overspecified for showing ascii that occasionally scrolls a little. Maybe critical for mouse pointer IDEs?
Yes, mouse pointer is among major articles driving refresh rate demand. Code auto completion/hinting is another one. But these are not essential for every workflow, there are many people who don't really need these. The most itchy thing is waiting for a letter to appear on the screen after you press a key - everyone wants this real time but some people still can tolerate a delay.
In the end it is about latency. A common example for me would be multireplace, where I select a word, ctrl + d through all instances and replace them. The second step will present me with multiple instaces of often wildly differnt usages of one word per second. This being sluggish or unreadable would be a dealbreaker for me, personally.
I can imagine that a somewhat responsive display would also be important for vim users.
> (what a ridiculous aim, right tool for the job anybody?)
High efficiency computing where we dont update the screen until absolutely necessary. Efficiency isn't just good for mobile/battery devices, it's good for everything.
This is way too expensive. I’ll stick to my Kindle and eink phone for now.
I recorded a video of me reading Hacker News on my eink android phone and Kindle here. It actually works great.
Apps used are EinkBro browser and Ktool. The browser is an android apk and lets you “page turn” websites with volume buttons. Ktool converts hacker news discussions to well formatted epubs for kindle.
I watched this video on my Daylight Computer :)
Definitely loving the rise of e-paper. As someone who spends a large portion of every day looking at a screen, it is just so much more comfortable than staring at a flashlight. Definitely exciting that we're starting to see innovation in this space again!
How do you like the Daylight? Was considering getting one for reading/note-taking but the price is quite high compared to some other options.
It's my primary mobile device; it's completely replaced my phone at this point besides GPS, and I don't even have a personal laptop. I just plug my ZSA voyager into it and use a bluetooth mouse and it becomes my laptop. I believe the primary thing that puts it above alternatives is that it can be very reasonably used for input (no noticible latency for typing or any finger / mouse inputs). The fact that they don't try to fight you / treat you as a child is a breath of fresh air for a modern device too. They have official recommendations for hacking on your device with custom ROMs and OSs.
The biggest cons for me are:
- without using the backlight, the battery lasts on the order of days vs e-ink which can last on the order of weeks or longer. With the backlight I can drain it in a day.
- The display is not as reflective as traditional e-ink, so there are lots of lighing environments where e-ink can be comfortably used without a backlight, but the Daylight would be difficult to use. Natural outdoor daylight (as the name suggests) or well lit indoor environments are perfectly fine to get away without the backlight though.
- The lack of a camera can lead to tricky situations sometimes. I have to use an alternative client for Signal (Molly) to be able to use it as my primary device, because the Signal app requires you scan a QR code to pair with a desktop. USB cameras are arbitrarily blocked too, I tried.
For me, the fact that it's smooth enough to be able to watch videos without a hiccup, be smooth for any kind of input, and treats me like an adult out-weigh the cons. I use it more than any other computer, but I also don't feel the same attachment to it like I used to have with my phone. It's great and I highly recommend it if you can afford it.
Can’t you decode a QR code and then paste it over? Or will it take a USB camera as an addon for this temporary need?
> Can’t you decode a QR code and then paste it over?
Yes, but that is intentionally rejected by the Signal app.
> Or will it take a USB camera as an addon for this temporary need?
See:
> USB cameras are arbitrarily blocked too, I tried.
The only way to use Signal and pair it with other devices is to use a different app without these arbitrary restrictions like Molly.
Relevant previous discussion (same topic, different news outlet):
> one of them exists now
My first thought was ‘this already existed, I could have bought virtually the same product already.’ …Which the article acknowledges even. Odd title.
I really wish that e-ink could be unshackled. I really love e-ink, I ordered Dasung’s latest portable monitor because I read on my computer a lot (which I’d love to you for work, but for a myriad of reasons I can’t… at least I can use it personally). My smart[ish] watch has an e-ink display. I’d love to see more products and more competition in the space, but sadly that doesn’t seem like it’ll happen.
> My first thought was ‘this already existed, I could have bought virtually the same product already.’ …Which the article acknowledges even. Odd title.
This reminds me of how "the first color e-ink reader" came out a few years ago, even though I already bought one 10 years ago, and even THAT one wasn't the first.
Same thought, as I sit here reading the article on my Dasung Paperlike 27 eink monitor. I guess I've been living in the future all these years.
I'm currently trying and failing to find a supplier for this in the UK. Any suggestions?
Counterargument at https://www.reddit.com/r/Onyx_Boox/comments/19czc16/a_genera...
For the curious, I'm thinking that emacs on this in the garden sun will work well, and there's a vesa mount to strap a mini-pc to.
edit: got a holding message from their Europe store, we're in "the May Day holiday from May 1 to May 5", which presumably means nothing much happens until that ends.
Comment was deleted :(
was looking at this the other day.
the issue is that they are optimizing for a stationary desktop.
what we actually want is a portable secondary monitor that I can use vscode in the sunshine. I would sacrifice Hz rate for that.
unsure if that boox one is the ticket
That's a good find.
I found a 13.3in eink display on Amazon, but it only has a ">1s" refresh rate. Others can take 10s of seconds.
[0] https://www.amazon.com/Waveshare-13-3inch-HAT-Raspberry-1600...
This one is great: https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-e-ink-monitor-p...
But an affordable 20" one would be great. 500 USD and I am in!
*Up to $4,275 in the United States depending on who eats the tariff -- you or the US company who imports the monitor.
For bulk imports, the wholesale price is lower, so you may only have to pay up to 2.25x wholesale.
At that sort of tariff, you'll see a lot of people dabbling in tariff evasion by smuggling stuff in their luggage (whether they realize it or not). If you pull it out of the packaging and just put it in your checked-in baggage, I doubt US Customs would know what it was or that you didn't bring it with you. "I'm a digital nomad, so I like to bring a lightweight monitor to work on."
This is very common in countries like Brazil that have extremely high tariffs.
People fly to Miami to buy a MacBook and iPhone and take it back in their luggage because even with the cost of the flight and hotel, it's cheaper than buying it locally. Just get rid of the packaging and put some apps and files on them so they don't look new.
The ability to enforce the law selectively is one I wouldn’t give any police in the next few years. They can overlook it and let you pass, or they can hold you for tariff evasion and ruin your day.
Sure, but that’s equally true for your laptop or phone or underwear that you legit did take with you. Selective enforcement is already a thing and it depends more on who you are than what’s in your luggage.
At least they didn’t use to deport people to El Salvador by mistake…
Pay in cash + unbox + remove tags + post the receipts to yourself.
> post the receipts to yourself
Why?
Customs bag search, they will put 2 + 2 together - proof of purchase and item in bag and you will be paying import taxes.
why do you need the receipt at all though?
How are they so expensive!! Could be great for coding and I wonder if they are better for your eyes.
But no way am I spending that.
I don't want/need color. I need a cheap 20" Eink computer screen.
> For US buyers... it doesn't seem like Onyx Boox is including [tariffs] in the listed price of the device
Oh dear, I suspect Andrew Cunningham will be making Trump's little black book.
Crafted by Rajat
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