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Black Friday is one of those imported things we could do without. Did you know shops in the Netherlands are now massively participating in Black Friday? We didn't even have this 'event' ten years ago.

Because of our Sinterklaas gift giving event on 5 December people would have been out shopping for presents in any case (like Xmas presents, just earlier and with the OG Santa instead of the Coca Cola dude), so in terms of footfall it doesn't change much, but it was just too good of an opportunity to pass up I guess.

Refreshingly, one national household items chain (Dille & Kamille) closed its store in my town today, with a notice stating the staff was out picking up litter around the city centre instead of submitting to the consumerist Black Friday phenomenon. Interesting, but on-profile for their brand. Good deeds are a marketing opportunity too of course.

In many countries the new tradition is slowly raising prices for a couple of months and then do the discount. Black Friday, Cyber Monday, and all the stupid global corporate propaganda deception campaigns.

Seriously, we import all the hyper-commercial "holidays" from the US, and then skip the one fun one (Halloween).

(Yes I know (I think) that it did not originate in the us.)

What happens in America, doesn't stay in America. Say no to drugs, say not to America(n cultural exports).

In Japan too. Black Friday has become a meaningless global sales event.

Is it any worse than Singles Day?

It’s a lot bigger than Singles Day. In Germany if you work in e-commerce it’s the busiest time of the year.

Spain too.

I actually found Black Friday to help me be less focused on consumerism during the rest of the year. When I want to buy something, I typically jot it down on my "thoughts for BF" list. Then, when everyone is having sales, I can dedicate time and through the yearly purchases. Also helps prevent impulse purchases as well.

That assumes that Black Friday deals are actual deals and there was no sneaky price increase two days earlier.

True, although if you're in the EU, there should be a 30 days reference period.

"In all EU countries traders are obliged, when offering a discount, to indicate the lowest price applied to the item at least 30 days before the announcement of the price reduction."

Of course, enforcement of such rules is the problem here. But if you notice such discrepancies, you are more than encouraged to file a complaint to the shop and then to your national agency responsible for the protection of consumers if the seller doesn't act in good faith. I was fairly surprised to see how well the latter has worked against a large company in my Balkan country.

Source: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treat...

camel for Amazon, and in Switzerland, we have toppreise. One major online store is also providing full price history (digitec/galaxus).

There are ways to circumvent that.

How does Amazon get around this?

Yeah, some just increase the price 30 days before black Friday though, and then offer a huge "discount"

I heard some even go as far as increasing price slowly in period of 6 months before BF. To drop it on that day as discount.

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In what way is the EU doing “less good” in transgender stuff? Genuinely interested

Poland has LGBT-free zones?

an admittedly shallow search for this topic resulted in a wikipedia page[1] that states that the EU witheld funding to regions in Poland that have policies that were summarily characterized as "LGBT-free zones".

In EU language, this is pretty strong distancing from such positions.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ-free_zone

I did not know, thanks for the info. But that is one country among many that constitute the EU.

Or worse the same SKU but “for black friday”. It was common for things like TVs to be marketed in such a way as to think it was the same product as previously, but instead was a lesser product like a tv with fewer ports and a shorter warranty (which would imply cheaper life limited components like capacitors).

Add the current price to that list too, and compare it before buying.

If the discount is fake, delay buying into March or something like that. Prices tend to fall in January/February.

I personally don't do that. But I see people doing it with a good amount of success.

In my experience, retailers will do this to make their “special” Black Friday sale similar to regular sales that roll around every few months, but I have never seen or heard of a company pulling this to the point where they’re selling stuff for higher than the normal full price.

So you’re right that Black Friday might not be the best time to buy something, but it’s fine if you want to get something at a good price and don’t feel like putting any effort into tracking prices throughout the year.

If you're using Amazon, always use camelcamelcamel.com to check first.

Or Keepa extension. I also use Tweakers.net pricewatch.

or it's just garbage that was made for the sale

I aim for the same approach. Yes, you have to make sure they are real sales. An easy if imperfect way is to jot down the current price when you first want to buy the thing, then compare what you see on “sale.” (As someone else suggested, camelcamelcamel.com is great for Amazon price history.)

Used prices also tend to go down during sale periods proportionally.

Exactly. Plus you get all the discounts scavenging on excess inventory.

excessive inventory of items you don't really need but buy anyway

Well some of us buy exactly what we planned to buy, only at cheaper prices, and after verifying with price comparison sites.

Beeing unrich[1] for years have given me this skill. I don't frivolously spend money.

[1]: wouldn't say poor as I have had a car most of my adult life, but definitely not rich, maybe "not always knowing in advance how to pay for food towards the end of the month" and "being very happy hand me downs" is a good explanation?

A better trick is to do the same but not actually jot it down on the list. Then you’re more likely to completely do without it.

It is possible to have discipline, and _also_ still spend your hard earned money on hobby purchases that bring you joy and fulfillment.

Complete abstinence has a philosophical purity but humans weren't meant to live like monks.

My point is that if you really need/want it, you’ll remember on Black Friday without the list. But you won’t be buying unnecessary stuff just because you put it on a list at some point. I certainly don’t advocate for complete abstinence.

"Complete abstinence has a philosophical purity but humans weren't meant to live like monks."

They were rather meant to hunt for black friday deals and dive into consumerism?

I'd say, I don't know and suspect no one knows how we are meant to live. We can just find out and decide ourself.

(I've met monks who were way more content, than your average consumer, but it is not my way of living either)

Some people find it such a challenge to not excessively consume they have to dedicate a special day for when they manage to not buy something for 24 hours - we’re so cooked

I have a sneaking suspicion that the people who excessively consume are not the same people trying to encourage others to not excessively consume.

> we’re so cooked

What does this mean in this context?

It means, "were fucked." Toast. Were done for. Stick a fork in us.

But like, how are we fucked? What has cooked us and what are the effects of the cooking, I guess

Related. Others?

Buy Nothing Day - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38398548 - Nov 2023 (2 comments)

Buy Nothing Day - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29347827 - Nov 2021 (3 comments)

Adbusters: 25 Nov. Buy Nothing Day - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13037015 - Nov 2016 (2 comments)

Buy Nothing Day - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13036942 - Nov 2016 (2 comments)

Buy Nothing Day - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4822951 - Nov 2012 (77 comments)

You mean move all the things I’m buying today to tomorrow day?

It’s the same as trying to tell everyone to stop buying gasoline for a day.

There are worse things, like switching off light and not using appliances for an "Earth hour", while making the power grid shedding the excess capacity frantically.

If you want to make a difference, do something small, but do it every day.

Once a week would be a good start. Like practicing jews do.

Yeah, I don't like these gestures that are tied to a specific day. It's blue tribe signaling with no real sacrifice necessary.

I believe the "minimalism" movement has been far more impactful in the long-run despite fewer adoptees, just by being a trend that capitalized on the benefits in its messaging. Those who optimize for minimalism consume less, but constantly.

Lately, I’ve found it more satisfying to discover a reason not to buy something than to actually go through with a purchase. Now if I get an amazing deal on something that I really need, that's also nice, but most of the time it's just more rewarding to avoid buying unnecessary crap.

I regularly attend auctions because I buy, restore, and sell vintage woodworking tools as a side gig.

The number of people who buy things only because the deal was really good is astounding. You didn't save any money if you don't need the thing you spent money on. I do not, have not, nor will I ever understand that mindset.

My family, unless the thing we need is an actual emergency, writes it down on a whiteboard on the fridge. If we still need it 30 days later, we start setting price alerts and cruising eBay and other auction sites. If it survives the month long cooling off period, if we can't find it for half price we definitely don't need it.

And as a bonus, we've gotten really good at finding things we actually do need for cheap when we actually need them (like school supplies or food and the like).

Everyday is buy nothing day. Then buy only thing you need is food. Clothing, shoes are my only purchase and those are used. Most expensive purchase are glasses which I keep for over 5 years. Stop with the consumerism -> ego -> hubris.

It's not about buying nothing, to me.

It's about being aware of what you're buying to avoid extreme consumerism. If you literally don't buy anything at all, what do you do for fun and entertainment?

Pfft, look at this one that _buys_ their food instead of growing/hunting/foraging it. Just another mindless sheep suckling at the teet of profit seeking corporations! And I’m sure you built whatever computer you typed your comment on from pure raw materials, and then programmed the OS yourself?

These kinds of purity tests have absurd logical conclusions. Why not view people with a little compassion and grace?

Look, I’m all on board with reducing consumerism but AFAICT you have plenty of ego and hubris of your own. (Hint: if you’re trying to control others, you have ego.)

With the advent of Amazon/online shopping. I find there’s a very short “I need X to fix Y problem -> order X on my phone -> Y will be solved Wednesday -> resume my current task”. I don’t feel like my being controlled by the Consumerism Phantom because I ordered some new towels and air fresheners.

I tend not to go to the store otherwise except for food shopping which is ideally ALDI and a company I actually enjoy patronizing.

Serious question: what would be the impact to the economy, if, for one day, no-one spent any money, but did the equivalent amount of spending before or after (i.e. there was no change to the averages)?

Or: See if those things I buy regularly anyway are on sale day?

Related to consumerism; I would recommend reading the book "The Perfection Trap", which has an interesting take on the intersection between our economy and mental health. It really explained a lot for me, kind of an "aha" moment. Regardless of whether you strictly agree with every point made in the book, it does make you cast a critical eye to where we are headed on our current path of consumerism.

What a perfect website to launch on my birthday haha.

HBD!

Thanks!

All four of us are working today.

So we're not shopping but we can't really do nothing right now. After work tho - we fully commit to nothing.

The more people participate in Buy Nothing Day the bigger the urge for even higher sales on Black Friday. It’s a win win.

Hundreds of years of developing a global market economy where every participant is ever-more interconnected and unable to sustain themselves just based on their own group, families and wider community, culminating in the ultimate ideological reverse: blaming the leaf node participants for the economy that they are subject to. Not a contradiction but a demonstration of the fact that the leaf nodes are not the powerful entities in the system; the true powers that be are capable of the bizarre feat of blaming Joe Average for ruining the world.

Any Call To Action that can be circumvented by buying all you need for the week on Tuesday so that you can By Nothing On Friday is just part of that ideological problem.

Does it count if I just bought maintenance things for around the house I needed anyway?

Got a free weekend, time to do some repairs I’ve been putting off.

In Austria, they call that Sunday.

That was easy. I think I'll do it again tomorrow.

The problem with consumerism is a function of money and capitalism, in a perfect world where everything is made 100% free and fair and with no environmental impact the consumption behavior would be the same (or even worse).

Would we still consider it a problem then?

In Star Trek there is no money and you can replicate whatever you need/want.

Is that utopia or are we still doing something wrong?

> In Star Trek there is no money and you can replicate whatever you need/want.

Where does the replicator input come from? What happens to all the matter that's produced? It's a fascinating idea, and I appreciate the exploration of a moneyless society. Yet even in that fiction they so often complain about the replicator quality, trade disputes, and resource wars.

It would at least be significantly less of a problem, if items purchased didn’t have such negative externalities as part of their production.

I don’t see why a culture significantly less prone to desiring items that aren’t actually all that beneficial, would be incompatible with capitalism?

Capitalism is competition of the elite class based on their ability to sell things. They are incentivized to make people buy more things. A society where the elite class wants to make the lower classes buy more things will never be a society where the lower classes buy few things.

I guess I should clarify what I mean by capitalism: A combination of relatively free markets (e.g. present day markets) and private ownership of the capital which is used to make goods and services that are then sold. I think this is a relatively standard definition, but I still think it good to say it explicitly.

Now that that has been said:

What, like lower classes have zero agency regarding their desires? Are advertisements mind control or something? I acknowledge that cultural influences can be strong, and can influence desires like this, but I don’t see why it would be necessary within capitalism that those that hold substantial capital must collectively have a stranglehold on the cultural values of the population.

Now, if people with power want to make it so that people in lower classes practically need to buy more things, by making them required for their jobs, that may well be feasible. Like, in a sense this has been nearly done with cell phones, and internet connection. But I don’t think “people buying things because they are needed for their job (or similar)” really counts as the kind of consumerism under discussion.

If current forms of advertising stop working, the elite class will find other ways to make you buy things.

How???

I mean, I personally don’t buy things much. And I don’t even block ads (a deliberate choice), so it isn’t like I’m preventing myself from being influenced by ads by limiting my exposure to them.

(I guess mostly it is just that I dislike having to think about whether a clearly-unnecessary purchase would be excessive, so I just strongly default to not getting things?

(Of course, it would be possible for me to be more frugal than I am, in that I buy fast food not that infrequently, when it would be cheaper to prepare food from ingredients from the grocery store, but I am too impatient for that.))

But like, how would they make me want stuff?

They don't have to make every outlier buy stuff. Just the majority is already enough.

This is "make" in the sense that print(1+1) makes the computer display 2. Nobody is holding a gun to the computer and threatening to destroy it if it doesn't print 2, but it still prints 2.

My new favorite holiday. Let’s import it to the US.

‘Tis the time of year when people love to give me and my family loads of shit we don’t want or need. And then it becomes my job to figure out how to best dispose of it all. They’ve given me the best gift of all, another chore I hate.

And then I’m obligated to guess what shit other people want when they’re perfectly capable of getting it for themselves if they want.

I like the family gatherings. I like seeing everyone and talking and laughing with them. I really do enjoy it. But I dread the part when it’s time to open all the wrapped up shit no one really needs.

Even as a kid it made me uncomfortable but I didn’t know why. Looking back I see it was because even then I was realizing I didn’t need more toys and I was learning that even if I enjoyed it or wanted it, that feeling was fleeting and I would soon forget about it. It began to see how wasteful it all was and realize I was happier just not getting more crap I didn’t actually need.

No more shit-giving this holiday, just enjoy each other’s company.

Consumption is good, actually.

Clearly it's going against the flow of the thread but this is right. All our salaries are paid not by wealthy patrons but by the flow of money through the economy from people buying things.

If people actually stopped purchasing goods and services we would find ourselves in a depression and tech jobs are far far from the last to cut. Seems people didn't pay attention to the v in their macroeconomics class.

If people don't spend it on things they actually want then the government has to step in and spend it on things they think people want and I assume folks intuitively grok that keeping the central-planning of the economy to a minimum is a good thing. Anti-consumerism can be a good thing for you as an individual or family but it's a virtue that is only afforded to you because most people don't join you.

Sounds like we have to destroy the earth or else we will destroy the earth.

Can you expand on that?

Except when it's not. Like CSAM or McMansions or lifted trucks.

One of those things is not like the others?

I was trying to point out an absolute, like consumption always being good, doesn't hold with widely different examples. After all, there is nuance when things are consumed.

Perhaps I should have phrased it differently.

Sure; "consumption" in this sense almost always means buying legal goods and services. Some economics would say that someone buying something is by definition proof that it is a beneficial transaction. I wouldn't go that far personally.

Seems like you might be approaching this from a different perspective / this is a confusion over the mutual meaning of words. But the GP is basically a slogan or an axiom, not worthy of serious rebuttal.

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I'm recalling Bush insisting we "keep shopping" after 9/11, on one hand a rejection of intimidation, on the other an economic necessity.

So edgy!

As we enter the holiday season, always remember that Christmas has two Ss in it, and both of them are dollar signs.[1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5IXlfJSEi4