hckrnws

I did a 24-hour running race a couple of months ago. Didn't hit my goal, but still came back with 50 miles under my belt.

To me, the bliss is the moment I forget I've been running for five minutes, or 15, or an hour. I can't meditate. Sitting still and breathing, it's never worked for me. I collapse in on myself. But when out running, or even just walking if it's a longer distance, I hit a point where I disconnect. My body is doing... something, and meanwhile I'm off diving deep into ideas or worlds or scenarios or who-knows-what-else.

50 miles in a day is still impressive, but was it uphill or something? 30 minutes a mile seems more like walking?

When events are billed as 24 hours rather than a distance they tend to be lapped arrangements where you do as many laps as you can in the time but can take breaks for food, rest, first aid, etc, between laps. That can significantly separate the average pace metrics for "overall" and "just moving time".

Events like Equinox24, Endure24, and a few others in the UK (I'm sure other places have similar events too), for example, have 5 or 6 Mike laps over varied (but usually not technical) terrain. There are people who just walk these events too, the events tend to be quite open and welcoming to different styles and abilities, sometimes managing more than 50 miles. It can be surprising how much "time on feet" can matter more than pace after a few hours. I start running but by the end the best I can manage is a zombie shuffle, which is slower overall than normal walking pace.

Only about 1800ft total elevation, which isn't much when you average it down and take into account a couple of hours here and there to swap plasters, eat some scoff etc.

I have never felt "pure pleasure" during a run. At my absolute peak I've finished marathons and said, "Yeah, I don't hurt much, and I wouldn't mind running some more."

I've never felt a "commitment to winning at all costs". I'm as much in awe of the winners of marathons as anybody sitting on a couch. They are literally running a completely different race from me. I never even see them.

I run marathons because I think the training is good for my body and my brain. The actual race is just a way to set a goal. I'd actually be healthier if I ran half-marathons instead, but having a very longstanding habit of running marathons. I have an irrational fear that I'll miss some signal of decline.

Eventually I'll get over that fear. But not this year.

I love trail running. Nothing beats it. I tolerate running on streets but I don't love it the same way. Something about the trail experience gets an additional few parts of my brain engaged in a way that takes it from "i generally like running" to "whee!". Of course, I also like hiking and I love long-distance hiking, so maybe it's just hitting the same buttons.

Which isn't to suggest that it's really about trails as much as it is that there are a lot of different ways to approach it that might work better or worse for other people.

I've never had a marathon I didn't have some amount of misery in. Though I did have one half-marathon that was basically just pure awesomeness: I ran the atlanta half marathon, which I'd planned to race pretty hard, but got injured. So I flew down there, met up with my friend, and we decided to just run it as a training run. Heck - I went to the port-a-potty as the starting gun fired, since the lines were too long. Started in the back, spent the entire race passing people, and decided in the last 3 miles I felt good enough to go fast and dropped down to something close to race pace for them and enjoyed the hell out of it. Didn't come anywhere near a PR, of course, but it was a memorably fun run -- good company, nice scenery, good slow warmup, and no pressure at all on myself. And kinda good for my ego since we spent literally the entire time flying past people who looked not very happy to be there. :-)

I run 5-6 times a week, and I've run many half and full marathons. I've never loved a run. I always love the feeling of being done with a run.

I’ll be honest, as someone who loves riding bikes, I’ve always felt that running is (tongue in cheek) for chumps.

I’ve finished 200mi rides and loved them. I’ve finished intense 80mi races and loved them. I’ve been on rides with over 15,000ft of climbing in a day. I loved them. I’ve passed 75,000ft of climbing in a week and loved that too!

I’ve never enjoyed a run, but I’m hard-pressed to think of a bike ride I didn’t enjoy. Give it a shot!

Ditto this.

Cycling for me is very fulfilling, unlike running.

That said, there's something to be said for using just your own body and very little equipment else.

Some people seem to really enjoy running, and I wouldn't want to deny them that.

Type II fun https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale

Have you tried trail running? Running in nature on windy trails is much more fun than just running along on asphalt. Because each trail is different it's also more difficult to compare pace and time between runs, so it's easier to stop thinking about the clock and just focus on the trail in front of you.

I hate running on tread mills even though that's probably also good training, but I don't consider it "real running" because of how mind numbing it is. But I always look forward to a good run in nature no matter the weather or time of year.

My peak running days ended almost forty years ago--something about a real job, family responsibilities etc.

My recollection is that during races I would reach a point about two-thirds of the way along, wonder what had got into me to sign up, and tell myself I wouldn't do it again. And then of course I would be back for another race.

However, when I was in condition a run of fifteen or twenty miles could be very enjoyable. These days, a run of five miles can be.

I have a general problem with not being able to align "I want to do this" with "I am making plans to do this" with "I enjoyed that"

And had the same feelings with game jams. I'd look forward to them, then feel bad while doing them, then look forward to the next one. Which I suppose is better than the normal depression behavior of looking forward to nothing and planning nothing.

I’ve noticed that I’ve repeatedly developed post-hoc positive feelings about in-the-moment negative experiences that make me want to do them again. Be this hikes, runs, jobs and child-rearing.

I know these experiences as “Type 2 Fun”[1], which I’d say a lot of high-level athletics qualifies as due to how much strain one’s body takes on in the moment.

1: https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale?srsltid=AfmBOoqIBZR...

I feel pleasure when running out in nature, just alone, for myself. Every now and then, I join a race - be it a marathon or some other distance - but running in a race is not as pleasant. It is a completely different kind of experience, different kind of fun.

Running in a race that was not professional but just “an event” ruined my will to ever do it again.

Compared to events like mud race/obstacle course.

That street running event was for people who love to compete the runners and public. Have to say I did not do well in 10km run with time 58 or 59 minutes and vibe all along when I just ran for fun to complete 10k was awful all the way. How big of a looser I am to run so slow.

In a mud races/obstacle courses I am not that bad I can finish in first half of contestants on 5k distance because I have a bit more muscle and functional strength/coordination. Bunch of obstacles for me are fun and not much trouble.

Those obstacle/mud races public and people competing are competing only “can you finish it under x time” where x is reasonable amount for a person to do that.

Personally I can’t stand measuring my performance, but a run outside in fresh air, in any weather, is grand, sometimes transcendent.

> I have never felt "pure pleasure" during a run.

I've often have pure pleasure while running through nature if you count that. I've done a few long distance trail events over the years, and it seems rather good for my mental health.

I've only done the pure joy of running thing, the so called runners high, once or twice. That was while doing fast⁰ road¹ running before I discovered the joy of a slower long plod in the green stuff, and it literally feels like being a little drugged up. The physical joy of exercise usually comes from neuroactive chemicals that the brain kicks out as natural painkillers², when you finish these take a while to filter out of your system but no longer have effect of hard work to counteract, so you feel really good in that cool-down period. Sometimes though their levels end up a little higher than they need to be for your current efforts while still running, when that happens it feels like you are running on clouds and that you could keep going for days, if you notice that happening you can sometimes draw it out by careful management of your level of effort (but obviously your judgement in that regard is a bit off at the time so that is easier said than done).

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[0] well, fast-sh, I've never been an example of peak human fitness!

[1] or at least payment, or the cycle tracks that were a large part of my regular training runs

[2] a useful part of the flight/fight reaction when being hunted, which as persistence hunters we evolved to co-opt when on the other side of that great survival game

I don't know if it's "pure pleasure" but running reliably makes me feel good. Very good if the weather is nice. I'm happy it's healthy as well.

Even very intense psychedelic experiences have not come close to the pleasure and contentment that I sometimes feel on a run. I don't race though, or try and push myself particularly, just do my best to get out a few times and week and cover some ground at a comfortable pace.

Decline is unavoidable, just a question of when and how quickly. Isn't it better to be at peace with it, as in broader sense also with aging in general?

There are sports where pleasure can be easily experienced, coupled with other intense positive emotions. Rock climbing does it for me (it works with something in our monkey brain and it works very well), some more adrenaline sports get you there too.

But its perfectly fine to not even seek pleasure, that's one way to sustain efforts for long since health benefits especially for white collar workers are massive.

Relevant to the first book, but last year and this year have been awesome for women's achievement in ultrarunning:

- Last year Courtney Dauwalter won the three most iconic trail ultras in a single season, when most professional runners will only target one. I've seen a lot of people consider this to be the single most impressive trail running performance by any athlete. https://run.outsideonline.com/trail/trail-racing/film-about-...

- In the spring, Jasmin Paris (featured in Better, Faster, Farther) was the first woman to finish the Barkley which is considered one of the hardest running races out there. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/23/us/barkley-marathons-jasm...

- This happened after the article was published, but Tara Dower just set a new overall FKT for the Appalachian Trail and crushed the previous women's FKT by 5 or 6 days. https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a62330229/tara-dower-appal...

At shorter distances, Sifan Hassan also pulled off a triple-medal performance (bronze at 5000 and 10000, gold at marathon) at the Olympics that hasn't happened in 70 years and most people thought would be impossible in the modern era of professionalized and specialized running.

Hi horv,

For Courtney Dauwalter are we talking "won" as in across all starters or across all women starters?

Winning against a mixed field would be beyond impressive!

She won across all women starters.

She has, however, won in mixed field before. In 2017, she won the Moab 240 outright.

The longer the distance (see: this 240mi race and the AT FKT) the closer the division between male and female (and also age).

Pretty sure she was the first place finisher overall. I am not sure how much of a gender advantage there is over those distances. Similarly, age is less of a factor too, with older athletes regularly beating those who are a decade younger.

For me, running is fun, but the real "hook" is the pure escapism. If you don't take a phone, you're unreachable. I have a lot of responsibilities, running is just an amazing way to take 30m-1h+ and just have some time to think and listen to music that also has health benefits.

I do highly recommend a RoadID or other identification. I'll also carry at 20 dollar bill for food or (hypothetically, I've never needed to do it) a tip for whoever gives me an emergency ride home.

In this vein I liked this book:

I Hate Running and You Can Too: How to Get Started, Keep Going, and Make Sense of an Irrational Passion

https://bookshop.org/p/books/i-hate-running-and-you-can-too-...

When I was in college twenty years ago, I was in the military. We did PT and ran often. The best I ever ran was after a summer of relatively slow but "longer" runs, maybe an hour or so each a few times a week. The best two mile time I ever got during PT tests, was just under 14 mins. I could never seem to break into an "effortless" run, like some of my fellows who just seemed built for it. And I NEVER enjoyed it, not even in the slightest. I never had any kind of endorphin rush that made me feel good.

As I got better at running and wasn't constantly gasping for breath, I moved from an active dislike to barely tolerated.

A few years ago, I finished up about 18 months of running on the treadmill for 50 mins, three times a week. The only way I could stand doing that was by watching something on the TV so that my mind could focus on something other than the running. I got more physically fit over time, and it was therefore "easier," but I again never experienced anything even close to enjoyment. Every step required discipline to stay the course because at every moment I didn't want to be running.

One day, something just snapped for me in whatever part of my being governs emotional will, and I stopped.

I would love to figure out how to run in a way that builds up my motivational reserve rather than constantly depleting it, but that method, if it exists, has escaped me.

Have you considered walking instead of running?

I put the treadmill to maximum grade and walk.

When I walk, I can easily read a book or listen to an audiobook.

I am happy with the exercise without having to actually run. I can't remember the calories, but walking at 15% grade was equivalent to a pretty fast clip at 0%.

> I would love to figure out how to run in a way that builds up my motivational reserve rather than constantly depleting it, but that method, if it exists, has escaped me.

Do you like music? Uptempo music? I run with a playlist designed to match my cadence at the various stages of my run. I get my endorphin rush from the combination of the run and the music.

> The successful distance runner is thus a paradox: a person blessed with godlike endurance and a baffling insensitivity to pain, who nonetheless, in a fundamental way, is just like us

I don't think it is a paradox. It is simply an example of how our minds and bodies can adapt and get better at a skill through months / years of training. It is amazing the the vast improvement that can occur over time.

There are quite a few comments here about people who don't really enjoy running (but do it anyway). In my case I only enjoyed running in company. That is, until I found out how to run slow. If you don't strain yourself (especially the first few kilometers), you will have a much easier time to "ease in". Running becomes less of a burden and more of a joyful activity. Best to leave the watch at home as well :)